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The Armory
Diablo II Strategy and Tactics
The forum for strategy questions and answers, strategy guides, and tactics discussion for Diablo II.
Questions? Read the Forum FAQ and please obey the Forum Rules.
wolf
Charter Member
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16-Apr-01, 07:19 PM (GMT) |
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1. "RE: Whats wrong with strafe these days?"
In response to message #0
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from what i've come to gather, multi became wildly popular with the ubercharacter/power-gaming crowd who seek out the easiest, quickest way of killing. when combined with a godly bow, said characters can simply stand in one spot and fire round after round of multi off the screen in all directions, eventually accidentally killing all monsters within range. it's cheap, it's easy, it's fast, and it's brainless. the typical bowazon who plays for fun will often use multi as a tool when the situation calls for it. they also use strafe, fa, immo, etc. since the bow bug has been fixed, the damage bonus from strafe is not so heavily relied upon. then you have someone like me who never had any use for multi and has always found strafe/fa/immo combinations to be perfectly sufficient. i use a very low-damage rune bow, so the damage bonus from strafe is very important to me. i think strafe has lost popularity due to fear of strafe lock and the supposed ease and range of multi. every skill has its place, i suppose, and it depends largely on your setup and how you prefer to play. - wolf http://www.snowday.org |
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Crypticburn
Charter Member
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16-Apr-01, 07:40 PM (GMT) |
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2. "RE: Whats wrong with strafe these days?"
In response to message #1
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I completely concur... multi is great when it comes to large crouds, but when it comes to lurkers jump all around, nothing beats strafe, and with a high pierce FA is deadly to a tightly packed croud, for example maggots. And nothing can beat a firey baking of immo on izzy or any other boss that you can get to remain stationary... Dispite all this, some of those bowazons out their disgrace the rest by using multi on big crouds, small crouds, single monsters, a maggot.... you get the point. Sure it increases chance to hit... but if I remember correctly we zons pump dex and generally have a 90% chance to hit... Personally, my zon needs more hotkeys as I use 8-9 skills and IIRC, I could use 9-10 skills easily... Crypticburn |
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Kefka
Charter Member
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16-Apr-01, 07:41 PM (GMT) |
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3. "RE: Whats wrong with strafe these days?"
In response to message #0
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There is nothing wrong with strafe, per se, but the reason multiple shot is more efficient killing is the fact that more speed = more damage. MS can be fired at the same rate as a normal arrow whereas there is a delay after a strafe cycle until the skill is used again. True, strafe provides a minimal speed boost and increased damage, but from the release of the 1.04 patch, that is irrelevant because the normal damage with quicker firing is quite enough. Another factor is "strafe lock". With most zons going very low vitality, one hit from a hell monster could slay an amazon warrior. Going strafe means setting up well with your positioning and decoy & zon as to take the minimal amount of hits. Strafe is still very viable as a main skill, and there is no reason not to use it; however, you will not match with the mass killing power of a multi shot zon. Perhaps someone could provide some math to back up the more speed = more damage. Kefka |
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Sylvyr
Charter Member
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16-Apr-01, 09:10 PM (GMT) |
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4. "RE: Whats wrong with strafe these days?"
In response to message #0
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If I remember correctly, Strafe was also nerfed about the same time the bow bug got fixed. The damage multiplier on Strafe used to be taken into account after the other damage multipliers had already taken effect. It was changed so that Strafe's damage multiplier was added to the other modifiers (like Dex) and the total was then applied all at once. In most cases, particularly with high Dex and high Strafe slvl, this caused a significant drop in damage. Sylvyr |
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dk
Charter Member
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16-Apr-01, 09:14 PM (GMT) |
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5. "RE: Whats wrong with strafe these days?"
In response to message #0
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Actually, I can never see what all the talk is about. 1) I use MS: spray, spray, spray...end result Monsters are all dead. 2) I use Strafe: snipe, snipe, snipe...end result Monsters are all dead. 3) I use elementals: fire, freeze, fire, freeze....end result Monsters are all dead. The whole discussion reminds me of religion and it's wars against the "unbelievers". I also wonder why the posters don't understand that 'there is more than one way to do it'. Maybe they play too much Black and White to realize that the world is generally Grey and has infinite shading (otherwise it wouldn't be interesting...) It's all a matter of style, and the other guy's style is OK too. |
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Vormaerin
Charter Member
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17-Apr-01, 01:04 AM (GMT) |
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6. "RE: Whats wrong with strafe these days?"
In response to message #5
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That was a rather inappropriate rant for this thread. No one ever mentioned anything about one version being better than the other. Tde original question was why multishot is the predominate method these days. Before 1.05 strafe ruled the powergamer crowd; now multishot apparently does. "Why" is a legitimate question, which was politely and appropriately answered. Aloha Vormaerin "Why do the Zealots of Atheism think they are not tarred by their own brush?" |
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Vormaerin
Charter Member
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17-Apr-01, 10:31 AM (GMT) |
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8. "No Problem"
In response to message #7
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It simple, really. A lot of non religious people seem to think that fanaticism is a purely religious trait. Zealous "anti religionists" seem to think that they are somehow different from the religious fanatics. They demonstrate the very same unsavory character traits that they are castigating their foes for. Just like those "openminded" types who try to say: "We tolerate everyone, except those who aren't as tolerant as we are". Bah! Sometimes religious belief is the cause of a dispute, but more often it is the *excuse* for it. Anyway, my private message box should work if you wish to go further with this. Its not exactly "armory" material. Aloha Vormaerin "KILL ALL FANATICS!" |
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Chuck
Charter Member
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17-Apr-01, 01:36 PM (GMT) |
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9. "RE: No Problem"
In response to message #8
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Hey let's drive this thing even more off-topic =P No doubt you've heard about Horowitz's article in college newspapers around the US about slave reparations. What I found interesting is that more often than not students went to the newspaper editors and demanded the thing be shut down or for the editors to resign or whatnot. So much for freedom of speech. What happened to Voltaire's "I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it"? Rather than combat what they felt as something offensive with words of wisdom and intelligence, they tried a "brute force" mob tactic. So it has come how the meaning of "tolerant" has changed these days. I'm sure the students would not have called themselves intolerant, yet that's precisely how they were acting -- rather than tearing Horowitz's arguments to pieces, as an intellectual would, they sought to have his writings repressed by strong-arming the presses. It's the old "the pot calls the kettle black" thing. Make sure you don't become the monster you seek to vanquish, etc. Eh I think that was the point Volmaerin was talking about. Oh yeah. In my old age I'm getting senile, and I'm digressing again. So what I talking about. Oh yeah. The multi vs strafe thing. I personally think they're both useful in their own situations. If you're up against Izual MS isn't gonna serve you well. If you're up against a bunch of maggots strafe isn't gonna serve you well. But this isn't really about MS vs strafe. Hmm. Well about the decline of strafe. 1) MS is more visually impressive. More eye candy, with all those arrows firing in an arc. 2) MS is easy to learn to use. Aim at pack, shoot. 3) Strafe-lock is a newbie experience. People who know the class well know how to avoid it, so it isn't a problem. It's mostly a problem with people who go into a pack of maggots and decide to strafe. Bad idea. For the most part, if you die to strafe-lock, it means you should've used another skill instead in that situation. 4) Less damage pre-1.03 = less of the rabble playing the class. Just look at how we treat barbarians. 5) Of course the fixing of the strafe bug deserves a mention. The strafe bug was fixed. 6) The mome raths outgrabe. I personally play my amazon as a jill-of-all-trades. I use the four major PvM skills, MS, FA, strafe, and immo, depending on the circumstances. So with the fixing of the bugs naturally I use MS more often now, but that's largely a relative measure from before, when I hardly used MS because each strafe arrow = 2 MS arrows. As for the speed, keep this in mind: That delay in strafe firing takes the same time as every firing of MS, and the same as every firing of a regular arrow. It's the firing lag speed. Of course MS fires its arrows all at once, but I'm just pointing out that it's not as if strafe has some extra-long delay or something. As for the strafe speed itself, I'm still confused about the recent strafe speed data thingy myself, so I'm not too sure about it, but it seemed like each arrow after the first fires at roughly 1/4 to 1/5 of the regular speed (no that's not the exact formula), so I would say strafe more useful if you have 5 monsters or less, MS more useful if you have more. That's just a general thing though, obviously there's plenty of exceptions. The MS zon has little mass killing power. That title falls to the FA zon =P. MS is a rounded skill that's easy to use, which is why so many people use them. FA doesn't leech mana -- oh no you have to learn to use a mana regen skill as well! Strafe has strafelock -- oh no you have to learn when you should and when you shouldn't use strafe! Immolation arrow's fires work over time, not instantly -- oh no you have to learn how to keep monsters still! MS doesn't really have much of a learning curve, and it provides a pretty good bang for the buck, which is why it's so often used these days. |
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