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Subject: "What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'?" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Loschonorg
Member since 13-Feb-03
14-Aug-02, 02:02 AM (GMT)
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"What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'?"
 
   i'm not saying its a bug. its good 9 patches already; let's face it.

i'm exploring some other things. i need to know if that line which makes leap attack being 'ranged' coincides with the functional aspect of 'ranged' in throwing mastery.

is throwing mastery's effect being used when leap attacking?

The Amazon Basin


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'? [View All] Loschonorg 14-Aug-02 TOP
  Good Question... William_Wallace 14-Aug-02 1
  RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'? Ruvanal 14-Aug-02 2
     RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'? Loschonorg 16-Aug-02 3
  RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'? Jarulf 19-Aug-02 4
     RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'? Loschonorg 20-Aug-02 5
     RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'? Loschonorg 27-Aug-02 6
         What I know... Elric of Gransadmin 27-Aug-02 7
             An Interesting Side Note... Casperi 27-Aug-02 8
                 RE: An Interesting Side Note... Jarulf 27-Aug-02 10
         RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'? Jarulf 27-Aug-02 9
             RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'? AtomicKitKat 27-Aug-02 11
                 RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'? Ruvanal 27-Aug-02 12
                 RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'? Jarulf 28-Aug-02 13
                     RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'? Loschonorg 28-Aug-02 14
             Hmmm... question then: Arutha 28-Aug-02 15
                 RE: Hmmm... question then: Loschonorg 29-Aug-02 16

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William_Wallace
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14-Aug-02, 06:56 PM (GMT)
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1. "Good Question..."
In response to message #0
 
   I've always thought leap attack used the mastery of the weapon you're wielding, but now that you said that, you got me thinking...

The (lying) Character Screen indicates that the correct weapon mastery is being used IIRC (I haven't playeb a barb in a while), but we all know not to trust it.

If anyone has the answer, thanks in advance.

"Only two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former"

--Albert Einstein


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Ruvanal
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14-Aug-02, 08:10 PM (GMT)
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2. "RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'?"
In response to message #0
 
   The Barbarian masteries are based on the itemtype of the weapons being used (Sword=>swor, Axe=>axe, Mace=>blun, Spear=>spea, Polearm=>pole, Throwing=>thro or is it using comb?) and the type of attack being used. The barbarian is not one of these itemtypes, so I would not expect it to count him when using Leap Attack. Throwing Mastery might apply when the barbarian has one of the appropriate weapon equiped; but I am not sure if the Throwing Mastery skill checks to only apply against the missile form of the weapon.


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Loschonorg
Member since 13-Feb-03
16-Aug-02, 08:30 AM (GMT)
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3. "RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'?"
In response to message #2
 
   yeah ruv, that's what got me thinking. what goes on to determine if mastery meshed with attack skills & in particular, attack mode?

The Amazon Basin


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Jarulf
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19-Aug-02, 06:15 PM (GMT)
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4. "RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'?"
In response to message #0
 
   >i'm not saying its a bug. its good 9 patches already; let's
>face it.
>
>i'm exploring some other things. i need to know if that line
>which makes leap attack being 'ranged' coincides with the
>functional aspect of 'ranged' in throwing mastery.

The game has no concept of "ranged" attacks. If one want to put it simple, we either have missiles attacking or what would be described as melee attacks. LA does a normal melee attack once it lands. It is definately not a missile


>is throwing mastery's effect being used when leap attacking?

The throwing masteries should be used only for the missiles spawned from a throwing weapon. I think that for a melee attack while holding a throwable weapon, the game will use whatever mastery the item correspond to, that is, axe mastery if it is throwing axes for example.


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Loschonorg
Member since 13-Feb-03
20-Aug-02, 01:21 AM (GMT)
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5. "RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'?"
In response to message #4
 
   hmm so no leaping kniver for me. great info! thanks!

The Amazon Basin


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Loschonorg
Member since 13-Feb-03
27-Aug-02, 09:49 AM (GMT)
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6. "RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'?"
In response to message #4
 
   LAST EDITED ON 27-Aug-02 AT 09:50 AM (GMT)
 
new questions:

1) if LA does a normal melee attack once it lands, why does it bypass the dmg returned check (thorns or iron maiden)?

2) so a throwing knife gets no mastery boost when using LA?

3) just to confirm: a throwing knife only uses throwing mastery when thrown?

The Amazon Basin


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Elric of Gransadmin
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27-Aug-02, 11:21 AM (GMT)
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7. "What I know..."
In response to message #6
 
   Hail Loschonorg,

1) Umm...I'll leave that to someone else
2) Jarulf said it isn't ranged, so it'd not get a Mastery boost.
3) Yes, only Throwing Mastery; however, the Critical Strike from Axe Mastery works with Throwing Axes (and works properly: not 100%).

May the wind pick up your heels and your sword strike true.
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Casperi
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27-Aug-02, 11:52 AM (GMT)
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8. "An Interesting Side Note..."
In response to message #7
 
   LAST EDITED ON 27-Aug-02 AT 11:58 AM (GMT)
 
One other thing about LA - according to the Barb FAQ at diabloii.net, Leap Attack does a Bash attack when it lands. They say that adding points to your Bash skill increases Leap Attack damage. However, I could not confirm this through testing (using numbers on char screen). My guess is that a previous patch changed the bash to a normal attack.

To increase damage on a leaping knifer, realize that the LA skill has a large damage boost. Plus you can boost it further by adding to strength and dexterity, both of which add a bonus to damage of throwing weapons and daggers.


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Jarulf
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27-Aug-02, 04:08 PM (GMT)
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10. "RE: An Interesting Side Note..."
In response to message #8
 
   >One other thing about LA - according to the Barb FAQ at
>diabloii.net, Leap Attack does a Bash attack when it lands.

That is not correct.

>They say that adding points to your Bash skill increases
>Leap Attack damage.

Thus that is not correct either.


> However, I could not confirm this
>through testing (using numbers on char screen). My guess is
>that a previous patch changed the bash to a normal attack.

No. But LA has never done a bash attack, at least not since the release of Diablo II a few years ago. I have no idea in pre release versions.

Note that the attack made with LA *will* add a knock back effect though. That might be a reason why people believed it was a bash attack perhaps.


>To increase damage on a leaping knifer, realize that the LA
>skill has a large damage boost. Plus you can boost it
>further by adding to strength and dexterity, both of which
>add a bonus to damage of throwing weapons and daggers.


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Jarulf
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27-Aug-02, 04:06 PM (GMT)
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9. "RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'?"
In response to message #6
 
   >new questions:
>
>1) if LA does a normal melee attack once it lands, why does
>it bypass the dmg returned check (thorns or iron maiden)?

To answer that shortly: because the LA code doesn't call the code that handle such effects (it include many of the cold armor checks and such too).

To answer it slightly longer. Normally, the game will set up some "combat" data as soon as you initiate any attack. This is done when you actually initiate the attack, not later on when your attack "hits" the target. This setup basically perform the ToHit check (thus in advance so to speak) and calculate the damage and in most cases even the damage reductions due to resistances and such. The game then keep track of the happenings and when you finally hit, a bunch of functions will if we are at the time for the hit, call the functions that check for things like Thorns, Cold armor and such. It then calls the damage resolution code that deal the actual damage and finally the code that update the target for the attack, such as seting hot recovery, checking for death and such.

Various hit effects such as Crushing Blow, mana from killing demon (is it called that?), atatcker take damage and such are called and checked for at various places (some in the place were Thorns and such, don't recall which though, they would be skiped by LA too).

The LA skill will when you initiate it only do the actual leap. When you actually land, it will do the "attack", that is call the damage calc function (including the damage reduction due to resistance, PVP and such) and the proceed to immediately call the "deal damage" function. Thus the game never ends up in the function that check for Thorns and such (and it can't be called directly either since it works based on the stored away combat data on the character, unpacking that one and such which neever happens in a LA.

Not sure if this helped to explain it though

The probable reason to precalculate most attacks is to combat lag and such.


>2) so a throwing knife gets no mastery boost when using LA?

Hmm, it would get from the mastery that would be used for a normal attack with a knife (don't remember what it is called) but not from throwing mastery, no.

>
>3) just to confirm: a throwing knife only uses throwing
>mastery when thrown?

Yup.


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AtomicKitKat
Member since 9-Jan-03
27-Aug-02, 06:05 PM (GMT)
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11. "RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'?"
In response to message #9
 
   >To answer it slightly longer. Normally, the game will set up
>some "combat" data as soon as you initiate any attack. This
>is done when you actually initiate the attack, not later on
>when your attack "hits" the target. This setup basically
>perform the ToHit check (thus in advance so to speak) and
>calculate the damage and in most cases even the damage
>reductions due to resistances and such. The game then keep
>track of the happenings and when you finally hit, a bunch of
>functions will if we are at the time for the hit, call the
>functions that check for things like Thorns, Cold armor and
>such. It then calls the damage resolution code that deal the
>actual damage and finally the code that update the target
>for the attack, such as seting hot recovery, checking for
>death and such.
>
>Various hit effects such as Crushing Blow, mana from killing
>demon (is it called that?), atatcker take damage and such
>are called and checked for at various places (some in the
>place were Thorns and such, don't recall which though, they
>would be skiped by LA too).
>
>The LA skill will when you initiate it only do the actual
>leap. When you actually land, it will do the "attack", that
>is call the damage calc function (including the damage
>reduction due to resistance, PVP and such) and the proceed
>to immediately call the "deal damage" function. Thus the
>game never ends up in the function that check for Thorns and
>such (and it can't be called directly either since it works
>based on the stored away combat data on the character,
>unpacking that one and such which neever happens in a LA.
>
>Not sure if this helped to explain it though

Long story short. Leap Attack triggers everything PRIOR to the thorns/IM portion of the combat code upon activation(when you target something with it), performs the leap, then does everything AFTER the thorns/IM portion of the combat code upon "impact" Wow, 1 sentence, that's a record summary for me.

>>2) so a throwing knife gets no mastery boost when using LA?
>
>Hmm, it would get from the mastery that would be used for a
>normal attack with a knife (don't remember what it is
>called) but not from throwing mastery, no.

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm talking to the Superior Being Known As Jarulf, but unless "Dagger" class weapons are counted under Sword Mastery, throwing knives won't get any mastery bonuses from anywhere unless thrown(at which point they are affected by Throwing Mastery)

>>3) just to confirm: a throwing knife only uses throwing
>>mastery when thrown?
>
>Yup.

*A spark, then a flashing brilliance, with the accompaniment of the divine orchestra.*

Have a nuke-u-ler break, have an AtomicKitKat!


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Ruvanal
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27-Aug-02, 08:52 PM (GMT)
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12. "RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'?"
In response to message #11
 
   Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm talking to the Superior Being Known As Jarulf, but unless "Dagger" class weapons are counted under Sword Mastery, throwing knives won't get any mastery bonuses from anywhere unless thrown(at which point they are affected by Throwing Mastery)

Correct.


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Jarulf
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28-Aug-02, 06:18 AM (GMT)
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13. "RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'?"
In response to message #11
 
  
>Long story short. Leap Attack triggers everything PRIOR to
>the thorns/IM portion of the combat code upon
>activation(when you target something with it), performs the
>leap, then does everything AFTER the thorns/IM portion of
>the combat code upon "impact" Wow, 1 sentence, that's a
>record summary for me.


Well, it actually does everything when your character lands, not one part when you activate the skill and the rest when you land. Also note that as I mentioned, in the code section handling Thorns/IM, it also handles a few other things like those various cold armors and some other stuff, they will also be skipped.

Otherwise it was correct

>
>Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm talking to the Superior
>Being Known As Jarulf, but unless "Dagger" class weapons are
>counted under Sword Mastery, throwing knives won't get any
>mastery bonuses from anywhere unless thrown(at which point
>they are affected by Throwing Mastery)


I was uncertain of the exact masteries in existance and thus avoided writing sword mastery


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Loschonorg
Member since 13-Feb-03
28-Aug-02, 07:42 AM (GMT)
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14. "RE: What makes Leap Attack 'Ranged'?"
In response to message #13
 
   ^ ^. more than i asked for. great! thanks!!

The Amazon Basin


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Arutha
Member since 10-Jan-03
28-Aug-02, 02:02 PM (GMT)
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15. "Hmmm... question then:"
In response to message #9
 
   I always thought that IM/Thorns had actually nothing to do with the attack being "ranged" or "melee" but simply with the attak being effected in "melee range", that is within the melee range of your weapon.
I was clearly wrong, but why then does IM/Thorns deal damage to ranged monsters when they attack from melee range (I have observed it take place) ?


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Loschonorg
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29-Aug-02, 00:35 AM (GMT)
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16. "RE: Hmmm... question then:"
In response to message #15
 
   if the experts are still around, i'd like to ask 1 last question: can ias affect leap attack? i don't mean the jumping part; i mean the attack after leaping down. thanks!

The Amazon Basin


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