Just been reading this topic about the traps

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.a...r&T=1068089&P=1

And the eyebrow thing is just plain ridiculous with the amount of other stuff that needs looking at . This will be like the cat mounts getting a bedroll . Not to mention worse clipping than eyebrows .

http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.asp...mp=1#post882890

Two blue posts concerning each of these topics:
Concerning Traps
Concerning Eyebrows

The big problem with traps isn't the invisibility of them, it's the magic FD/trap in combat addon/macro that hunters use...you can be in melee with a hunter, never see or hear FD, and magically a trap appears under you without you moving. That's broken. Simple as that. Invisibility of traps isn't a problem, as long as hunters can't lay them *in combat* like they do all the time.

(i.e. if I charge a hunter and get trapped by the trap between his feet, my fault, perfectly legit. If I get out of that trap and get to melee range on him again, only to get trapped again [w/o leaving combat on my part at all] that's just wrong)

It doesn't take a macro to do this either, put the trap key and FD key right next to each other, call the pet back and hit 1-2 (or whatever the keybindings are) right in order and you can manually do the same thing, the game won't even play the FD sound on your system you stay standing all the time. It's is broken and it's solved easily by making FD kick in a cooldown on the use of traps or maybe just the universal cooldown. Sure this makes using it for dropping aggro in PvE a little tougher but oh well. You feigned death I would think if it was convincing you would need a little time to get back in order after you got back up.

The other option is to make placing a trap a short channel, like .5 seconds. I always thought they should be like this anyway since you can't drop them in combat.

I don't even find that a problem. I am trapped and out of combat, I can see where he puts the next trap and can avoid it. In short, I have a chance, so feel it's fair.

What I find a problem, is when I'm sitting face to face swinging at the hunter, he flops down between swings and before I can hit tab then 1, I'm already frozen. No chance to avoid the trap, because the freeze radius is ~melee radius, it was laid at my feet, so I can't avoid it in any way.

The other issue is repeated freezing isn't diminishing, but I think that was in the patch notes, or at least it's on the known issues page in the bug-fix forum.

The reason freezing isn't diminishing is because the cooldown is longer than the effect time, even with talents. This is why a Paladin's stun is never diminished, it last 6 seconds, but takes 1 minute before you can use it again. Any time the cooldown is longer than the effect time, there is no diminishing returns from that type of power and I wish it was different (being stunlocked by two rogues and never being able to do a thing is downright annoying).

That's not true.

Concussion Blow has it's return diminished by the wimpy stun from charge. Kidney Shot has it's return diminished by Cheap Shot. Those are two counter examples that I have extensive personal experience with.

I always felt that the traps should be able to be set anytime including in combat. BUT that the traps should all be on the same cooldown of about 2 to 3 minutes. This would be enough to allow them to used about once per normal non-instance type of combat without a problem. If a fight manages to last longer, it seems better to me that the hunter should be able to lay another trap, but not have to resort to such odd type of mechanism to allow it to be done (which to many players is what they are seeing as being abused right now).

That works for me too. That would make traps in general more useful becuase I don't want to use my AoE trap at the start. I want it after the warrior has locked down the 4 mobs.

There are several solutions to the problem and it is a problem.

Except the hunter will make his pet look at you and you won't be able to Charge, and instead you get to either walk to him with your shield up and in Defensive Stance or blow Intercept way too early.

I'm hoping that you won't loose your target any more when a hunter feigns. According to the patch notes you won't loose your target when feared etc, so we can always hope that feign is on that list. Also, the changes to StopSpellCasting() should have some effect on this, although probably not much.

On a similar note, flare now leaves a visible mark on the ground now. Yay!

There's a reason for that, too. Paladins have a single stun - Hammer of Justice (and I guess you could count Repentence for Retribution specs, though it's not a stun.) Hunters have no stuns.

Warriors have two stuns right off the bat (Charge and Intercept), get a third if they go deep into Protection (Concussion Blow), and get a fourth if they're Tauren and Protection (War Stomp.) If their stuns didn't share a timer, they'd be just as bad as Rogues with stunlocking.

Correction: they have a 5th with talents. Although 1 is only a 40% proc chance.

Personally the 2 characters I play right now are a warrior and a hunter and I am not unhappy with how the 2 work. The only imbalance I've seen in traps is vs warriors and when the warriors (myself included) use the same timing and skill it takes to stick someone in a trap the fight outcome is always in doubt. Rend breaks every attempt at a melee trap I ever make, and if I get someone to step into a trap from a distance IMO, that's their own mistake. Fighting a hunter means dodging his trap and if you wach him move you should know right where it is.

If you adjust how traps work you need to increase intercept cooldown... but then you need to change blink cooldown... and priest fear... It's throwing a wrench into things that will take Blizz about 3 or 4 patches to fix. If they are too easy to spam that's a simple mana issue. As for making them visible I think this is just silly. It's hard enough to get someone who knows what they are doing into a trap. I'd rather see them made stealth like rogues, if you're careful and facing the right direction you will see them but otherwise invisible. I mean, these are suppose to be traps not glowing beacons that say "DO NOT STEP HERE".

You still both missed one. So if you did a really odd build you could have charge, intercept, conc blow, revenge, mace spec, and if tauren war stomp.

I'm now waiting for someone to point out yet another stun I missed.

If you're going to go with Mace, then Earthshaker/Unstoppable Force is your 7th...

Fair enough in my book if we are counting warstomp then TuF/ES are both valid to count too.

Bombs, glorious bombs.

That's technically a disorient.

Of course Artega was initially refering to controlled stuns and all the other stuns mentioned after are proc stuns. But who am I to point out a technicality like that?

ES/TUF/bombs are not strictly warrior stuns, though. Any engineer can use bombs, and pally/shaman/druid can use ES or TUF.

Along a similar thought, the bar-none most annoying thing I ever had happen to me in PvP was getting ressed near a warlock in AB.

Before I can even hit the stealth button upon res, the Succubus was already casting Seduce and I was in combat. Got out of Seduce (by virtue of a glorious Shadow Bolt then some DoTs), burned some timers to stand a chance in the fight ... then got Death Coiled.

And you've missed the point where I was only counting controllable stuns, not proc-based stuns

Earthshaker/TUF/etc are proc-based.

Bombs are incapacitates.

And you apparently already caught this and I didn't notice it earlier. Damn you.

Bombs are overpowered.

My little hunter thoroughly enjoys utilizing bombs to great effect in WSG. Unfortunately he's gained the reputation of healer slayer and flag disruptor that he is targetted very fast in games.

Nothing better than laying a trap mid field to catch a would be flag running, slowing them with shots and then stunning them with a bomb long enough for focus fire to take him down.

If they hit your trap when it's in mid-field, they deserve to die

Also, I've seen people say that you should simply move the Hunter off his or her trap: it's not that simple. As a Warrior, I can do NOTHING to make him or her move away from his trap; if I stay away from it, he'll just casually rain autoshots, serpent stings, and arcane shots into me. If I charge him, I'll trigger the trap.

USE YOUR BOW- PEW PEW!

And, again, I have no problem with the normal hunter trap he lays pre-combat, it's the one he drops *under me* *WHILE I'M HITTING HIM*, that I have a problem with.

Never play an artillery duel with a Hunter if you're not a Hunter, Mage, or Warlock (and sometimes, even if you are one of those classes).

No, no...don't tell them that, Lissa. We want to get into an artillery duel with them. They want to shoot arrows (or icebolts, or firballs, or death coils) at me, I'll be more than happy to exchange artillery with them.

I love free HK's as much as the next guy. =P

Yeah, it's like the occasional dumb hunter who *wants* to melee with me. Doh! Free HK for me.

I've beat Warriors and Rogues this way because they weren't expecting me to do it. I have killed Dagnabit on SR when he was on his Tauren Warrior Kazganti because he thought I was going to run away from him instead of meleeing him when we has down to 30% life and had intercepted me (I was shocked he didn't expect me to melee since Dag is a Hunter and probably the best PvP Hunter on SR, although he's never made the same mistake again with me... ). I have also killed a number of Rogues that thought that 15% to 20% life was enough a buffer to get me from 50% to 0% in melee...

Also, most Hunters don't realize it, but, the best way to kill a Hunter as a Hunter is to melee. Most Hunters new to PvP will try to run instead of fighting in melee which means you just chase them around and whack them...

Hunters can be sneaky bastiages...

Working as intended! It makes perfect sense that someone can Feign Death, put a trap down right under your feet before you realize they're faking it, and trap you before you blink!

About as much sense as someone "stealthed" in a WIDE OPEN FIELD that I can't see... =P We know how much you hate this Quark, and you are getting your wish. Maybe it's time for some other classes "uber PvP cheese" (according to every other class) to get a nerf.

Seriously, I'm getting tired of PvE taking the hit becuase of people b*tching about PvP imbalance.

This won't change anything, trust me. You won't see the trap quick enough to compensate. Either you'll know it's there by instinct/experience, you'll get hit by it, or the hunter will FD/FT and you'll get trapped anyway.


This change doesn't affect PvE at all.

Anyway, as little as this change does, it does even less for me. Detect Traps means I already know where the traps are -> unless it's the FD/FT combo, or I was being an idiot (in which case I deserve it).

USE HOLY SHOCK- ZAP ZAP!

Absolutely the best abiliity to have while fighting rogues. They don't expect it, so they try to restealth while running at me- SHOCK- HAMMER- RAAAAAWWR, JUDGEMENT, MINDBULLETS, HAMMER OF GG.

HONOR!