Is there any story or other background for high level BE Paladins that explains why they are accepted in Outlands? Seems to me that "Hi Adal, hope you don't mind that we've got one of you guys trapped so we can drain his power, got any quests?" might not go down so well.

I recently started a Draenei Paladin to see the new areas (and have a getaway from guild administration while playing aside the girlfriend), and came across a quest where you capture a Blood Elf Paladin. The Draenei are appauled at what they consider an abomination, while the Blood Knight says that "The Light" is a power that can be bent to one's will just as any other, as are the Naruu.

Truth be told, the Naruu seem rather passive. Their disposition makes me wonder just how much truth there is to Xi'ri's conquest.

This space is currently occupied by a conspiracy theory involving goblins, murlocs and a mysterious woman named Granny Smith.

The room with the captured Naruu in Silvermoon definately creeped me out, and it does make you wonder. However, if an undead warlock with a tame demon can get quests from Adal, why not a blood elf paladin?

"I HAVE CRUSHED A MURLOC, FRUIT VENDOR! THIS WILL NOT BE THE LAST ONE!"

There is a story you get when you take the tour of Shattrah guided by Khadgar's elemental pet. The gist is a nasty bunch of Blood Elves came along and attacked the city causing much death and destruction then their leader requested a parlay. He met the Naaru and said "hey guys I had a vision that we should follow you so here we are". (This faction became the Scryers and the rather miffed original inhabitants of Shattrah became the Aldor). There was some gumpf about putting up with them in the face of the greater threat of the Burning Legion

There isn't a story that the entire TBC storyline was conceived on the back of an envelope at a drunken party but perhaps there should be

It's simple.

It was a stupid justification for letting Blood Elves be paladins which is pretty much ignored as soon as you get out of the starting areas.

The Draenei justification with regards to shamans is better... but again, it's ignored as soon as you get out of the starting areas.

It's not Draenei shaman that suck - Draenei have been shaman since they were first introduced. It's the Draenei Paladins that are the horrible mismash of craptacular retcon. That's all wrapped up in their new origin and their pewpew spaceship.

Would it have been so terrible to leave the Draenei as "the broken"? Put their starting zone near the portal in outland, say the NE have taken pity on a band that want's to break free from Illadin, and gave them a flight point to the portal, with their 10-20 area an adjunct to the SOS. Remove Pally/priest, add rogue. The A'dal can still be powerful beings drawn to fight the legion and restore outland... they just didn't give the Draenei a spaceship or save them from the Legion.

One thing I'm missing is any motivation for the BE to go after Kaelthas, other then T5 chests. I haven't played through the whole BE start, but as far as I've seen its all "Yea Kaelthas!" If he really has the cyper of damnation... So? I'm dedicated to the survival of the BE nation back on Azeroth. I could care less what A'dal has these scryer traitors doing.

The Naaru in general were an entirely ridiculous idea. They had to be strong enough to repel the Legion...but too weak to really fight them? And they're just captured so easily? I guess the point is that all their amazing powers are psychic or something, which is how they're so technologically advanced despite an inability to move? At all?

I actually don't see what's wrong with the Blood Elves being Paladins on a general...I mean, they used to be "good" and all, and they knew magic first. Maybe it's just circular logic, but I don't see why Paladins *have* to be "good." Arthas was tainted, anyway. I wish the Blood Elves couldn't be hunters, more. Aside from the lore implications (haha), it would be so awesome for them and the Tauren to be totally mutually exclusive in terms of classes.

And technically, NE males are the Druids and females are the fighters, although this obviously goes ignored in the game.

I'm going to go ahead and admit that I wouldn't be playing a Draenei if they were ugly.

I dunno, I don't perceive the Elves as a society/nation so much as an enormous group of individuals who really are trying to keep themselves alive just another day. I haven't gotten there yet, but I think the point is that Kael isn't really looking out for them anymore.

I'm totally with you, OMD. I wanted to roll a Draenei/Broken rogue quite badly. Even in the patched-up lore of TBC, The Broken are totally cooler than the Draenei. They remind me of The Forsaken. They're clinging to the ragged edge, holding on for survival, and not afraid to step on the throats of anyone who would threaten them. Sure, they're trying to find their way to The Light, but they're realistic--threats need to be put down, not ignored.

Playing my warlock through Draenei quests is even worse than reading the lore on the website. The Draenei quest text seems like it's pointed at someone playing a paladin (or someone who has high morals, at least), so they just come off as blind, idealistic fools. Meanwhile, the Broken say they need some throats stepped on and there's some gold for me if I take care of it. Now that's what I'm talking about.




Full disclosure: I did roll a Draenei hunter to see the new starting area. Her name is "Spacegrrl" and her pet is a ravager named "Spacecaat"

...he's a cat

...from space.

The sillyness of the Naaru aside, the fact that some of them are really powerful, but that one got captured really isn't that hard to comprehend. Think of people - some of them can wrestle alligators, others can be cornered by mice. Or think of humans in the game - Highlord Morgaine is several million times more powerful then Kul Tiras Marine.

Well, Draenei probably can't be considered pretty either. They look powerful and impressive. I'm not saying they have to use the actual Broken model currently wandering the swamp of sorrows. But they shouldn't have made them powerful space demons either. Something inbetween, would get enough people playing who want to see the starting zone, want to roll shammy, or just want to try out what is new.


There aren't an enormous amount of blood elves or high elves running around. The 3rd war did not go well for them.

Well, I won't ask if there's any time when you actually see a Naaru do something-I'll see for myself. But they seem impossibly passive, which was one of the points this thread made in the first place.

I don't know if I really want to defend the design choices, but I'm fond of the way they turned out...visually. Plotwise, their sanctimoniousness and stuff is definitely obnoxious. I think I'm going Scryers.

I mean, they made female Orcs totally awesome too (although, unless they're undead, I don't make characters with ugly faces, which does eliminate quite a few), so I'm sure they could've done right with the broken.

Well, that's what the lore says, but the lore says that the vast majority of basically all the races (except what...dwarf, forsaken [who don't have numbers on their side to start with, given the scourge and all, right?], Stormwind (?, but I think that 20-ish years is long enough) and I'm really not sure on the Orcs) are dead (or traitorous).

Also, it probably evens out a little more at high levels, but at least 3/4 of the horde I see outside of BG's are Elf. Stormrage isn't exactly huge when it comes to Horde population either though...but man, the day that Orc woman (Warrior) was shredding Refuge Pointe was awesome.

Meh, it seems god-like beings are starting to accumulate in Warcraft lore.

Titans, nature demi-gods (Cenarius), Elune, the spirits of the wild, the Old Gods, the Dragon Aspects, the Naaru... Where does it end?

Heh. Just after the supply of ancient threats that have been contained for millennia and are just now breaking out is exhausted

Hahah. Oh yeah.

Having done both the Scryer and Aldor quests from A52 (on the same character! ) I can say that the Blood Elves, regardless of faction, are pretty pissed at the deception Kael'thas has pulled on all of them. He's in league with the Legion. As such, he's an enemy.

Ah. I got my epic mount and stopped questing right when they sent me to manaforge Ara. Reading through the quests on wowhead, that where the big reveal is.

Definitely worth a read. The Blood Elves seem to view Kael'thas as their savior right up until they figure out he's in league with the Burning Legion, at which point it's "LET'S KILL HIM." Nothing like a common enemy to bring warm fuzzy feelings to all.

Which brings us back to the timeless discussion you can frequently find on the WoW forums - why would, for example, these Blood Elves kill Illidan? He was actually one of the people who helped them, and he is actually against the Burning Legion, but let's go kill him anyway, right? And yes, apparently now there are some sound files in game which point to Maiev coming and helping the raid kill Illidan (even though Blizz said that you don't really kill Illidan, as much as get in his way).

Not that I like Illidan, but there is about as much reason to kill him as there is to kill Naaru or Consortium.

To the extent that any of this matters....

Well, if Illidan's gone completely nutty, it's probably a good idea to knock him off. I take it he realizes Kael has betrayed him, at that point he has to be removed to protect Silvermoon from his vengeance.

That doesn't change the fact that you are forced to start fighting your leader *before* you find out he has betrayed you. You have to knock out 3 out of 4 manaforges before you figure out what's going on, as well as probably doing the terrokar quests.

So if the story is that Kael decides Illidan is too unstable to ally with anymore, then changes allegiance to the burning legion... as opposed to the alliance or the horde? This is only 5 years after they flattened his homeland and killed most of his people.

Meh, I don't know why I even bother. Blizzard sure doesn't. They still have the old "Eradar corrupted Sargeras" story up on their web page.

Kael is pretty much nuts nowadays. Y'know, the whole magic addiction thing?

Illidan is off his rocker too. "I BEAT ARTHAS! See how mighty I am!" "Eh, dude... Arthas kicked your ass into next week... What the hell are you on about?" "No, no, I won!!"

Really?

/surfs to worldofwarcraft.com

Oh, I see, you missed http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/index.html with:


There, doesn't that band-aid make the retcon all better?

Ummmm...Illidan is also working for the Legion. Did anyone forget that he's Kil'Jaedan's Lt in Outland? Go back and look at the end of the BE/Naga campaign in Frozen Throne. He's most definitely working for the Legion as well. If you read through the text from various quests coming with 2.1, like getting attuned for Black Temple, it indicates that the reason Illidan thinks Kael should die is because Kael is trying to usurp Illidan's leadership in Outland and take over himself. It doesn't matter if Kael really is or isn't trying to do so, it's that Illidan's paranoia makes him believe that Kael is trying to take over and that is why Illidan wants Kael dead.

From Blizzard's official page:

http://worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrusade/...ll/outland.html



Nope, definately sounds like he is enemies with the Burning Legion. Short history: Burning Legion forces Illidan to go after Arthas, Illidan loses, and fearing anger of the Burning Legion, retreats to Outlands, seals all the portals, and is preparing an army to fight the Burning Legion if/when they come knocking on his door.

Funny enough, it's not the first time that we stopped Illidan from helping us - in one of the WC3 chapters we stopped him from destroying the Frozen throne using the Eye of Sargeras.

Well, to be fair, Maiev didn't know what he was doing. She's also a bit crazy herself, come to think of it...

And flooding an entire planet by shattering apart an icecap is the better alternative?

Wait, when did Al Gore get involved in this?

-Bolty

It's a little more appropriate to say this isn't the first time that warcraft players have naively been led into doing the wrong thing by the developers for the purpose of advancing the story. Hey, we helped Arthas slaughter Andorhal's sleeping villagers and complete his turn to the dark side, didn't we? That led to facing Archimonde himself to save the planet.

And now Illidan is blocking portals to prevent the Burning Legion's many "remaining Lords" from entering Outland. If WoW player characters kill/stop/hinder Illidan from doing this, who will face the Burning Legion on the other side of the portals? Where will we find powerful enough individuals?

These remaining Lords of the Burning Legion are so mighty that it'll probably take entire teams of 5, 10, or even 25 very powerful characters to defeat them. And they'll probably have to defeat halls full of Burning Legion minions and lieutenants before they can even attack these remaining Lords.

Gosh, where will we to find groups like that in the World of Warcraft?!

Ahaha, thanks for the chuckle

Quite true, hell, there are whole campaigns where you play as the bad guy. But you know what they say, fool me once into trying to kill Illidon, shame on you, fool me twice... Bah, it's not like there is any story left to advance. Let Blizzard do as they wish, as long as everyone get new shiny epics.

Eh? Go do the netherwing questline, when you're sent to the orcish fort on Netherwing Island, stand next to the commander there for a while until he has his discussion with Lady Sinistra. Chris Metzen totally wrote it, you can tell, and there's plenty of story in there.

Cheers,
~Frag

That's a good thing? He's responsible for the Eradar/Sergaras/Pew Pew Spaceship mess.

Is it just me, or is this "complete insanity" deal starting to become quite the racial trait for Elves in general?
Kael'thas is obviously quite the raving lunatic..
Queen Azshara.. well yeah.. nice going there lady.
NE Hunters (99%) of them ... Oh . My . GOD.
Illidan, locked away for thousands of years in a black room. Way to go therapy! Drinking from skulls of magic powers. Stark raving mad? Probably.
And that leader prick in Darnassus, that male elf that constantly insults the hell out of you whenever you did quests for him (his name escapes me) .. maybe hes not insane but lets just say he is for the sake of it so he will be the first against the Wall when the Revolution comes. IMO
Oh and druids gone mad, driven insane by mana bombs? Bombs, made by who..? More elves! WEEE!
And lets not forget the Emerald Dream, once it's released I'm sure it'll be shock-full of absolutely bonkers druids. Yes, I can't wait!

But clearly, elves in general are totally missing a few branches in their trees, ahem.

I suppose it's a consequence of being pigeonholed by your own lore. How many elves are there that are innately evil, as opposed to evil due to insanity/addiction/plague/etc?

You could say the Highbourne were at least partially evil due to the stratification of Night Elf society, but did they really act evil before Sargeras' corruption?

If it means stopping an unholy juggernaut of undeath and preventing the creation of what is quite possibly the single-most powerful evil entity in the (heavily retconned) history of Warcraft, I think it would be okay

Metzen actually admitted that he'd forgotten parts of his own storyline.

Oh, no! Whatever would the Murlocs do?

-Jester

Azshara wasn't crazy. Evil as hell, yes. Crazy? Not really.

She probably is nowadays, though. Being turned into a Naga Queen will do that for ya.

Suffer, hopefully.

You've been Murloc tipping to often with an overly rambunctious female Troll haven't you?

Really? I was under the impression she was droven bonkers by demonic influence and screwed up bigtime.
So she just went EvilVillain-Mode™ instead?

I think it's pretty funny though that he felt he had to go so far to explain why the Draenei start out in Azeroth.

She certainly was crazy. Doesn't take much of the War of the Ancients trilogy to see how crazy.

Yeah, actively helping Sargeras get summoned into the Well of Eternity isn't exactly a sane act, is it?

Like I said, she was evil. She wanted all the "impure" races scourged from the world. Can you think of a faster way?

Then again, the line between evil and insane is somewhat blurred.

The only part of the WoW storyline that makes much sense to me is the quest where you deliver lunch from the Redridge inn to Guard Parker. Past that part the storyline is all pretty much all complete lunacy that is re-written into an increasingly tortured form every few months to accomodate new content. That lunch delivery quest line rocks, though.

I realize I'm coming back to this a little late, but if you don't like Metzen... well, I dunno what to tell ya. AFAIK, Warcraft is his ship and he's the one steering the story, weatherall hell or high water.

Cheers,
~Frag

I declare you the winner of this thread, sir!

You are right we are stuck with Metzen's work. He is obviously phoning it in to make a mistake of that magnitude.

Lore *could* be a part of what keeps people playing. A year from now when there is a bumper crop of newer, more technically proficient games around, it *could* help keep people playing if they want to see that one special bad guy dead (Illadin, Deathwing, Arthas) that they have been hearing about for years. If you take a giant steaming dookie all over your lore, it reduces that.