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I saw X-Men 2 today... - WarLocke - 05-05-2003
It's amazing to see all these great superhero flicks recently. Traditionally (IMO), the only decent superhero movie was Batman, and perhaps Batman Returns if you don't mind a little camp. But with X-Men, Spider Man, and now X-Men 2 (I haven't seen Daredevil), the genre has gotten a huge shot in the arm.
I offered to take my cousin to see the film today, and after finding out that she had never seen the first one, I just had to dig my tape out. So, we watched it and had a great time. Then we watched the interview with Bryan Singer (the director of both X-Men movies) afterwards. According to that interview, the first film was shot on a $75 million budget. If that's the case, X-Men 2 had a much, much higher budget. Everything about this movie was better than the first.
Every returning character got chances to really shine (although Cyclops seemed a bit short-shrifted in comparison to the others), and the new characters introduced were really well-chosen:
Nightcrawler has always been my favorite X-Man, and he comes across awesomely in the film. The actor chosen to play him is a bit older than he appeared to be in the comics, but fits the part perfectly. And his fight scenes (the first of which is at the very beginning of the movie and is possibly the best in the flick) are just awesome; they're almost a ballet of mayhem.
Iceman and Pyro seemed a bit underdeveloped, but hopefully will have larger roles in X-Men 3. Pyro, in particular, will be interesting to watch, IMO. Iceman comes across as a boy-band wannabe (Pyro too, to be honest), but that may be to set up his relationship with Rogue.
Colossuss only appears for a few short scenes, but those are memorable. If he's not in X3 it will be a tragedy. This movie needed more Colossuss.
Jubilee and Kitty Pryde are in several scenes, played by the same actresses from X1.
There are also several hints dropped for hardcore comic readers. Several other prominent characters are seen or mentioned, and although I'm sure I missed some, I noticed Remy Lebaeu (Gambit), Hank McCoy (The Beast), and Jamie Maddox (Multiple Man?). There is also a big tip of the hat to Jean Grey, although only comic readers will probably catch it.
Another interesting bit is that although this is a PG-13 flick, there's quite a bit of killing done. Wolverine and Magneto especially get to do some mayhem.
The only problem (again, IMO) with the flick is the villain's henchman. She appears to be a direct rip off of Lady Deathstrike, but is in no way related. I see no reason to have made up a character when one present in the fiction (and relevant in the same context) is available. But maybe that's just me.
To sum up:
Nightcrawler.
Needs more Colossuss.
Go see this movie.
9.5/10.
- WL
I saw X-Men 2 today... - unless - 05-05-2003
Word. This movie was rad.
The Nightcrawler stuff at the beginning was so kickass that it almost seemed like they pulled it out of a Matrix movie. Wolverine's scene in the mansion and Pyro's big firefest were the only sequences that came close. Action sequences aside, I was surprised at how well Pyro was portrayed by the chosen actor.
Funny thing about Cyclops being short-shrifted: He seemed to have basically no personality in this movie, which is exactly what he's like in the comic book.
Colossus was cool to see, but I get the impression that the 'actor' they have playing him was less an actor than a body model. Awfully Ahnuld. All the name-dropping of other comic-book characters was pretty neat, as a former fan. I noticed Sam Guthrie and Roberto DaCosta as well (Cannonball and Sunspot).
The villain henchman's name was Yuriko, and she's referred to as Deathstrike at least once in the film. They completely changed the character, but I can't say that I mind much. I can believe mutants, for the purposes of the movie - cyborgs are a bit too much.
Surprisingly enough, the script was pretty well-written, carrying over many of the allegorical themes of the comic and presenting them in a far more realistic way. Kudos to the screenwriter.
The one thing that really, REALLY bugged me about the movie was the PG-13 rating. For all the violence, Wolverine tearing people apart, soldiers tossing hand grenades...there were only two scenes I can recall with any appreciable amount of blood, and all of the grenade explosions seemed to lack any sort of fire. Hell, Wolverine was gutting people and his claws were coming out clean. I'm not saying I wanted tons of gore, but the total absence was very noticable and more than a little jarring.
One little point that stood out to me: none of the "good guys" (cyclops, storm, etc.) killed ANYone, while Magneto and Mystique were pretty indiscriminate. The exceptions being Wolverine, who tore #$%& up, and Pyro, who tried really hard to tear #$%& up but somehow, magically, failed. I think they just didn't want to show any cops getting killed.
Man, talk about disjointed rambling...heh, sorry. On the whole, this is a well-made action movie with a brain in its head and some artful special effects. More than good enough to hold us over until the Matrix sequel.
I saw X-Men 2 today... - Mithrandir - 05-05-2003
Daredevil was pretty bad. Don't bother seeing it. Well, I suppose it might be worth the $5 to rent it just to say you saw it.
Quote:There are also several hints dropped for hardcore comic readers.
A pic of Stryker's computer:
http://www.infantry-sector.com/conan/xmencomputer.JPG
Harada, Keniucho - Silver Samurai
Kane, Garrison - Kane
LeBeau, Remy - Gambit
Lensherr, Eric M. - Magneto
Maddicks, Artie (no nickname, was in Generation X and X-Factor)
Madrox, Jamie - Multiple Man
Mahn, Xi'an Coy - Karma
Maximoff (2) - Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch
McTaggert, Kevin - Proteus
Moonstar, Danielle - Moonstar
Munroe, Orore - Storm
Hank McCoy was interviewed, obviously. Hmm, can't really think of any other *sekrits* in the movie. Didn't catch Jubilee though, where did you see her?
Quote:Another interesting bit is that although this is a PG-13 flick, there's quite a bit of killing done. Wolverine and Magneto especially get to do some mayhem.
Magneto escaping from his prison gave the opening scene with Nightcrawler a run for its money in terms of pure coolness :)
It was also quite reminiscent of Wolverine getting the adamantine stripped from his bones in the comics.
Quote:The only problem (again, IMO) with the flick is the villain's henchman. She appears to be a direct rip off of Lady Deathstrike, but is in no way related. I see no reason to have made up a character when one present in the fiction (and relevant in the same context) is available. But maybe that's just me.
Well, a lot of the characters have had an "artistic license" taken with them in some form or another. Rogue doesn't have stremendous strength or the ability to fly (probably because they don't want to "waste" time explaining the whole Miss Marvel fiasco). Prof. X was never describe as having the ability to kill every person on the planet merely be concentrating too hard in the comic books... with or without Cerebro's help. Toad secreted a substance from his hands and was also able to control people who touched it. Mystique was never protrayed as having spindly skin. And so on.
I suppose they were just looking for a new character who hated Wolverine and was semi-involved in the Weapon X program. Lady Deathstrike fit the bill but they didn't want a hokey cyborg/assassin with extending arms I suppose. Well, they both... um... have claws... and stuff.
I saw X-Men 2 today... - WarBlade - 05-05-2003
Mithrandir,May 5 2003, 03:56 PM Wrote:Hank McCoy was interviewed, obviously. Hmm, can't really think of any other *sekrits* in the movie.Well there was Siren busily waking the house, although that one was hardly a secret . . .
Quote:Toad secreted a substance from his hands and was also able to control people who touched it.Eh???
When? You appear to be describing Worm there, a character also appearing in X-titles who ran with a group of pre-historic themed mutants. Toad only ever had the leaping ability and was fairly proficient with hi-tech hardware.
I saw X-Men 2 today... - WarLocke - 05-05-2003
Colossus was cool to see, but I get the impression that the 'actor' they have playing him was less an actor than a body model. Awfully Ahnuld.
Well, I don't think you can really tell when he only had two lines ("This way!" and "I can help you!"), but I thought he did fairly well with those two lines (stance, tone, inflection).
The villain henchman's name was Yuriko, and she's referred to as Deathstrike at least once in the film.
I completely missed the Deathstrike comment somehow, then. I only remember her being addressed as Yuriko.
Didn't catch Jubilee though, where did you see her?
Well, she shows up first in X1, in one of the deleted scenes ("Storm's Class (Expanded)"). She looks somewhat asian with her trademark yellow coat. She asks Storm a question about the lecture, and Storm addresses her as Jubilee.
In X2, you see her in a few shots at the mansion before all the crap hits the fan (although I don't think she had any lines), and then she's in that room with the other kids near the end of the movie (if you listen you can hear Storm yell "Jubilee!" when she and Nightcrawler get there).
Magneto escaping from his prison gave the opening scene with Nightcrawler a run for its money in terms of pure coolness
That was insanely cool, but Nightcrawler wins because of sheer BAMF-ness. :P
Prof. X was never describe as having the ability to kill every person on the planet merely be concentrating too hard in the comic books... with or without Cerebro's help.
Yeah, that did seem kind of hokey. Although related to that, was Mutant 143 supposed to be Legion, or was he a new character?
Toad secreted a substance from his hands and was also able to control people who touched it.
I don't remember Toad having that ability. I thought that was Worm's (the Genosha guy) power. In the comics Toad always seemed like the little dork let into the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants just so the other could pick on him. He even wore that little court jester getup...
Mystique was never protrayed as having spindly skin.
Yeah, it's strange how they didn't just go with the "plain blue skin, white dress" look, but you have to admit the new look is an eye-catcher! And her exit from that one room was just sheer style... :D
I suppose they were just looking for a new character who hated Wolverine and was semi-involved in the Weapon X program. Lady Deathstrike fit the bill but they didn't want a hokey cyborg/assassin with extending arms I suppose. Well, they both... um... have claws... and stuff.
Yeah, but did they have to make here [u]exactly[/i] like Wolvie? Ooh, she has claws, and regenerates and stuff. She's just like Wolverine... Only a girl!!!
Of course, she had one of the more interesting deaths in the film... :blink:
I so need to see this again.
- WL
I saw X-Men 2 today... - Swarmalicious - 05-05-2003
In fear of adding senselessly to the bandwidth here - I must reinforce the aforementioned props above about nightcrawler's opening fight scene...
Heeeeeeell yeah.
I saw X-Men 2 today... - Nicodemus Phaulkon - 05-05-2003
Too many instances of the "Sophomore Slump" in the history of Hollywood efforts. It's become expected that the follow-up will never live up to the original. In the best case, it's a continuation of the same feelings you took from the first show (The Empire Strikes Back). In the worst case, it's a toilet-plunger spiral of doom into a wet and soggy fleecing of your dollars and time (Men in Black 2).
So... I went as a fan, long-based in the lore and history, expecting the worst.
Kudos. I was ENTERTAINED. In this day and age, I have three ways to rate a movie:
a. Shouldn't have seen it
b. Worth seeing once
c. Worth seeing again
X2 followed the choice view that moved off the rate scale and into "Will buy immediately".
34 years old... and I'm still buying comic books. God help me. :huh:
I saw X-Men 2 today... - Striker - 05-05-2003
WarLocke,May 4 2003, 11:28 PM Wrote:Yeah, that did seem kind of hokey. Although related to that, was Mutant 143 supposed to be Legion, or was he a new character?As far as I can tell, 143 was the son of Stryker and was a character made for the movie. And I don't recall Legion as having illusion-based powers. I can only think of Mastermind, but it's also been a very long time since I caught up with X-Men history, so I'm more than likely wrong.
Quote:Yeah, it's strange how they didn't just go with the "plain blue skin, white dress" look, but you have to admit the new look is an eye-catcher! And her exit from that one room was just sheer style...I think you now know why they changed her look. ;)
Since we're asking questions, who was the kid who changes channels by blinking his eyes? I didn't catch his name in either movies, and I can't think of any mutant off-hand who has electric-based powers.
I saw X-Men 2 today... - Roland - 05-05-2003
...although I haven't seen it, I can already tell what my one and only gripe will be:
Pyro and Iceman. Boy band wannabes, to the extreme. Iceman is the preppy boy-band wannabe in the story, while Pyro is the Goth wannabe, Ice's polar opposite (no pun intended). Frankly, they both reek of modern day culture; something I hate.
And one more reason not to like it? No Gambit! Come ON! Some of the BEST parts from the comics were Wolverine's attitude with Gambit's wit and charm. Those two combined would have made that movie, PERIOD.
Am I wrong here? I mean... come ON! Gambit! :D
Bah. I'll get off my podium now. :)
And... I WILL see this movie. :D
I saw X-Men 2 today... - Vash - 05-05-2003
I totally agree Roland. Out of all the Xmen members they chose to omit...why Gambit!?!?!?
Right, so Nightcrawler's opening scene and Magneto's escape. *faints*
I saw X-Men 2 today... - the Langolier - 05-05-2003
Isn't Iceman... a man made up of ice?
I do wish Gambit was in the film, but I can see why they didn't put him in.
I think they tried to include too many mutants into one movie. There can't be much else to it when you focus on 20+ mutants. Nightcrawler didn't really look that good for nightcrawler, the proportions between his hands, feet, and head made him look a little goofy(makeup was excelent though). Although nightcrawlers scene was cool, I don't think he ever bamfed like that in the comics - it was pure hollywood cheese (aka "I-want-to-be-the-matrix") for the lemmings.
I saw X-Men 2 today... - WarBlade - 05-05-2003
Vash,May 5 2003, 07:27 PM Wrote:I totally agree Roland. Out of all the Xmen members they chose to omit...why Gambit!?!?!?Because he's a shallow character with very little interaction opportunities with the other characters around him at any level of depth. There was the brief moment after Storm re-emergence into the world as a child where they got the mentor the mentor and protege thing going as he trained her in the arts of being a thief, but after that all Gambit was was "I am style." Basically, his contribution to the team amounted to picking locks, being unfazed, doing acrobatics and card tricks and generally just being the resident Zaphod Beeblebrox.
I prefered Longshot before him. :P Now that was a character with some personality! (except he wasn't a mutant in the same sense as the others)
It's all moot though. Nightcrawler is the classic resident acrobat of the team and he's finally in the story. :D He can easily handle all the onscreen acrobatics and hopefully the more 'impish' side of his personality will get more screen time in sequels.
I saw X-Men 2 today... - Swarmalicious - 05-05-2003
the Langolier,May 5 2003, 07:55 AM Wrote:Isn't Iceman... a man made up of ice?
Yeah I know! Maybe he'll change at will or something later on... I'd dig seeing his roller-coaster-track thing he flies around on too.
the Langolier,May 5 2003, 07:55 AM Wrote:Although nightcrawlers scene was cool, I don't think he ever bamfed like that in the comics - it was pure hollywood cheese (aka "I-want-to-be-the-matrix") for the lemmings.
Hollwood cheese, perhaps. Lemming? uhh... no.
But hey, call me an african honey badger if you feel like it, that opening scene ranks (way) up there among the coolest fight scenes of any film. I think they were able to nod to the matrix without actually 'sucking up' to it. Superb innovation meshing teleport with choreography, in my opin.
...and of course, if you happen to be one of those folks who thinks the Matrix is awful, then we've nothing more to discuss. ;)
edit = my own stupidity
I saw X-Men 2 today... - MonTy - 05-05-2003
Well, I think previews are a bit too long now. I actually fell asleep in em, and woke up about an hour and a half into the film. I couldn't believe it!... O well, guess thats what a full time job and school will do to you. Anyhow, from the parts I saw I absolutely loved it. I had a pretty big problem with Pyro and Iceman; I definitely could have done without them. Maybe take out Pyro/Iceman and put in gambit... Yea, that would do.
I went with a few friends and they detailed how I must see it again, especially for the beginning with Nightcrawler. And posts from everywhere on the net only conclude that I will have to go again.
I saw X-Men 2 today... - WarBlade - 05-05-2003
Swarmalicious,May 5 2003, 08:26 PM Wrote:Yeah I know! Maybe he'll change at will or something later on... I'd dig seeing his roller-coaster-track thing he flies around on too.The comicbook character is actually wrapped in ice rather than transforms into ice.
I don't think his luge trick will be a likely contender in further films, but you never know. It might still go in. Note how Storm almost never flies and Jean Grey hasn't lifted off yet either. Such things were too much of a corny looking departure from reality and the films were trying to portray the characters as less fantastic than their 4-colour print versions.
The other thing they might try instead is part of Iceman's first incarnation. Back before the luge, he used to do a kind of ice skating thing - none of this zipping through town, spiderman style on a giant slide, just plain old ice up the floor and go. ;)
I saw X-Men 2 today... - Kryn - 05-05-2003
Mutant 143 was Jason Stryker, Stryker's son. My friend led me to believe that he could be Proteus, and he's a huge X-Men fan.
Who was that kid with the snake tongue?
I saw X-Men 2 today... - LiquidDamage - 05-06-2003
the Langolier,May 4 2003, 11:55 PM Wrote:Although nightcrawlers scene was cool, I don't think he ever bamfed like that in the comics - it was pure hollywood cheese (aka "I-want-to-be-the-matrix") for the lemmings.I remember a few fight scenes like that in the comics, where Nightcrawler beat up several thugs, teleporting between hits. It is possible that I am thinking of the Nazi-Nightcrawler from a parallel dimension in an Excalibur storyline, but still, he is (or was, before he was wounded in the mutant massacre after teleporting WAY too much when trying to incapacitate Vertigo-- I stopped reading long enough ago that I don't know if he recovered) capable of teleporting that often, and striking right before teleporting again.
He is also a highly skilled hand-to-hand combatant, so I don't get what the problem was with the scene.
I saw X-Men 2 today... - bschultz - 05-06-2003
so no one's mentioned how jean grey was turning into the Phoenix at the end of the movie there. she was on fire and everything. also at the very end of the movie was it just me or was something under the water? maybe jean in phoenix form? I dont really know a whole lot about that story line from the comics...
I saw X-Men 2 today... - Nicodemus Phaulkon - 05-06-2003
That was the obvious intention, methinks. After all, we have Xavier looking out the window towards the distance and suddenly smiling, saying everything is fine... and then we flash back to Alkali lake. I thought I noticed a small, shaped glow as well under the water.
Jean's holding of the Phoenix Force is contingent to the Marvel Universe, and heralds the plotline's desire to move off of this planet and out into the great beyond. I think we're looking at a multi-sessional movie genre intention, here; "James Bond" instead of a trilogy.
Could get a bit insane, though. That's alot of mutants to put into one two-hour movie block. :blink:
Hey, for those of you that don't know... fun reference here:
The Marvel Directory
I saw X-Men 2 today... - WarLocke - 05-06-2003
I'm not sure that will be the case.
The movies, thus far, have tried to make it a point to stay away from the more outlandish (okay, in a relative sense) staples of the comics. Notice that the only time in the movies when Storm flies is after Toad knocks her down the elevator shaft, whereas she flies virtually everywhere in the comic. Also, many backstories/history links (Wolverine vs Sabretooth/Deathstrike, Rogue/Mystique/Magneto, Nightcrawler/Mystique) have been dropped (mostly, I think, to have a comprehensible movie that doesn't run 4 hours long).
There was a very interesting thread on the Something Awful Games forum that delved into this point. I could look up the link, but it's not really a work- or child-friendly thread, being full of Goons and all... ;)
I think they're going to take a more "organic" approach, either by deciding that the Phoenix is Jean's (heretofore untapped) maximum potential, triggered by her use of Cerebro in the first movie (remember Cyclops saying that Jean's "been different since Liberty Island"?), or an uncontrollable expansion of her abilities, also by Cerebro. Either way can result in a recognizable (Dark) Phoenix, but does away with the Shi'ar plotline that would be necessary to do a "comic true" Phoenix -- and to be honest, the Shi'ar stuff wasn't the best bit of work ever, and it would take too long to show/explain it for one movie, anyway.
Here's what I want to see in X3:
The government, extremely alarmed at the near-death of everyone in the world, somehow learns that it was at the hands of a mutant (perhaps Stryker's second leaked the information). Wanting to ensure that such a situation never happens again, the president (maybe not the one from X2, perhaps this is next term) authorizes yet another secret operation to curb the "mutant threat", headed by Henry Trask. Yes, that's right, I want some hot hot Sentinel buttkicking action! The Sentinels tear up the mansion (again), and we see cuts to sentinels fighting other mutants (perfect place for some cameos). The Sentinels, however, develop a glitch: since every "normal" human being has the potential to mutate, or pass a mutation to their progeny, the only way to wipe out all mutants is to kill all the normals as well. This culminates in the X-Men having to fight their way into Trask's base to turn off the Sentinels (and perhaps get some Master Mold action, too). This would quite nicely tie up the current "Anti-Mutant Government" story arc.
Note that Jack Kirby-esque Sentinels would probably suck, but if they were designed as 15-foot Terminators, or something along those lines, I think they'd be rad.
The Phoenix could also be introduced near the middle/end of the movie to help with the final assault against Master Mold (and to show how sheerly powerful she is), before her fall in X4.
Magneto fitting in is tougher. He could just be left out, or maybe he's the cause of the problem (he sends Mystique in the reprogram the Sentinels, but she doesn't get it right, or something).
Either way, Sentinels + Phoenix = Win.
Oh, a few more things X3 needs:
Gambit
Cannonball Special!
Longshot (yeah, I wish...)
More Colossus
Rogue's powers
- WL