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+--- Thread: Intellect and Crit (/thread-4286.html)
Intellect and Crit - MongoJerry - 06-01-2006
As mentioned on the Lurker Lounge front page, Tseric revealed how intellect affects spell crit%:
Quote:Not an accurate statement. I will clarify.
At level 60, each class has an "expected amount" of INT. This varies from class to class.
At level 60, a Mage's expected amount of INT is 286 points.
That expected amount yields a 5% crit chance.
This works out to 59.5 points of INT for each Crit% point.
At levels before 60, the numbers are different, but keep the basic ratio of expected amount of INT to the crit% of 5.
Later in the thread, he provided this table:
Quote:For Mages at level 60:
48 Int: 1% crit
107 Int: 2% crit
167 Int: 3% crit
226 Int: 4% crit
286 Int: 5% crit
346 Int: 6% crit
405 Int: 7% crit
465 Int: 8% crit
524 Int: 9% crit
584 Int: 10% crit
This makes me wonder if there's a way to make a really high spell crit warrior or rogue by making them wear a bunch of +int gear. Of course, one would then have to find a spell for them to cast.
Intellect and Crit - lemekim - 06-01-2006
Quote:As mentioned on the Lurker Lounge front page, Tseric revealed how intellect affects spell crit%:
Later in the thread, he provided this table:
This makes me wonder if there's a way to make a really high spell crit warrior or rogue by making them wear a bunch of +int gear. Of course, one would then have to find a spell for them to cast.
Well, rogue's poisons damage is based upon spell crit and +spell damage, isn't it? In which case, one could theretocially create a poison-oriented rogue, perhaps even with high spell crit. Considering that rogue's int is quite low even at 60, their int per crit is probably low as well, and it might be very easy to achieve 20%+ crit on poisons (well, instant poison anyway).
Intellect and Crit - MongoJerry - 06-01-2006
Quote:Well, rogue's poisons damage is based upon spell crit and +spell damage, isn't it? In which case, one could theretocially create a poison-oriented rogue, perhaps even with high spell crit. Considering that rogue's int is quite low even at 60, their int per crit is probably low as well, and it might be very easy to achieve 20%+ crit on poisons (well, instant poison anyway).
Look for the adventures of Argus, the rogue mage soon!
(just kidding!)
P.S. Seriously. Just kidding.
Intellect and Crit - teske - 06-01-2006
Well that information is old. The mages int rate has been known a long time.
What is new is the information for other classes.
Tseric:
Not exactly, but the numbers tend to hover around that mark for many casters, at least. Obviously, for melee the numbers are somewhat irrelevant. Sorry that I don't have the exact numbers for Paladins, but the trend is illustrated. Here are some other numbers to that end:
At level 60, these are expected numbers of INT and points per Crit%
Warlock 200 - 60.6
Druid 192 - 60
Shaman 160 - 59.2
Priest 250 - 59.5
What is strange is that the expected int values differ so strongly, yet the chosen value for int/crit is pratically same. And still they didn't use the same value. Strange, almost looks like a result from a different formula.
Intellect and Crit - lemekim - 06-02-2006
Quote:Well that information is old. The mages int rate has been known a long time.
What is new is the information for other classes.
Tseric:
Not exactly, but the numbers tend to hover around that mark for many casters, at least. Obviously, for melee the numbers are somewhat irrelevant. Sorry that I don't have the exact numbers for Paladins, but the trend is illustrated. Here are some other numbers to that end:
At level 60, these are expected numbers of INT and points per Crit%
Warlock 200 - 60.6
Druid 192 - 60
Shaman 160 - 59.2
Priest 250 - 59.5
What is strange is that the expected int values differ so strongly, yet the chosen value for int/crit is pratically same. And still they didn't use the same value. Strange, almost looks like a result from a different formula.
Supposedly the Paladin Int/crit is 29.5. Which might be the reason why blue did not mention it. Such a low number for Paladins who already benefit so much from it...
Intellect and Crit - Arnulf - 06-03-2006
Quote:Supposedly the Paladin Int/crit is 29.5. Which might be the reason why blue did not mention it. Such a low number for Paladins who already benefit so much from it...29.5? I don't think so. With or without Holy Power? I would have nearly 18% spell critical chance. That's definitely not the case.
Intellect and Crit - teske - 06-03-2006
Quote:29.5? I don't think so. With or without Holy Power? I would have nearly 18% spell critical chance. That's definitely not the case.
Well you should try testing. Every decent damge meter can tell you your crit rate.
I'd be very intrested in data.
Arnulf refers comment is based on Talshuler's Research
Intellect and Crit - Kevin - 06-03-2006
Quote:29.5? I don't think so. With or without Holy Power? I would have nearly 18% spell critical chance. That's definitely not the case.
Last Ony run on my paladin.
Total Int: 277
+crit from gear: +2
+crit from talents: +5
54 casts of Holy Light. 10 Crits
5 casts of Flash of Light. 1 Crit
5 casts of Holy Shock. 1 Crit
Not a huge sample but puts me at 18.5% crit rate on HL and 20% on FoL and HS
Expected crit based on the 29.5:
277/29.5 = 9.39
+ 5
+ 2
= 16.39%
I show similar crit rates on my heals for other data sets (but I can't complete verify the gear I was in, we did a 22 man of Ony last night so I know what I wore).
So yeah, my limited data samples support that. Though again what is posted is a very small sample. I don't feel like doing 1K casts on myself right now to see how it goes since my other data I have has similar numbers for similar gear.
Intellect and Crit - Xanthix - 06-03-2006
Quote:Supposedly the Paladin Int/crit is 29.5. Which might be the reason why blue did not mention it. Such a low number for Paladins who already benefit so much from it...
Actually a lower number is better here.
With 300 int and 29.5 int/crit, you'd have 10.2% crit rate.
With 300 int and 59.5 int/crit (the mage rate), you'd only have 5% crit rate.
Intellect and Crit - Kevin - 06-03-2006
Quote:Quote:Supposedly the Paladin Int/crit is 29.5. Which might be the reason why blue did not mention it. Such a low number for Paladins who already benefit so much from it...Actually a lower number is better here.
With 300 int and 29.5 int/crit, you'd have 10.2% crit rate.
With 300 int and 59.5 int/crit (the mage rate), you'd only have 5% crit rate.
I believe lemekim's statement was because OTHER classes would complain and the uproar of "nerf pallies!" that it could cause.
Intellect and Crit - Lissa - 06-04-2006
Quote:Well that information is old. The mages int rate has been known a long time.
What is new is the information for other classes.
Tseric:
Not exactly, but the numbers tend to hover around that mark for many casters, at least. Obviously, for melee the numbers are somewhat irrelevant. Sorry that I don't have the exact numbers for Paladins, but the trend is illustrated. Here are some other numbers to that end:
At level 60, these are expected numbers of INT and points per Crit%
Warlock 200 - 60.6
Druid 192 - 60
Shaman 160 - 59.2
Priest 250 - 59.5
What is strange is that the expected int values differ so strongly, yet the chosen value for int/crit is pratically same. And still they didn't use the same value. Strange, almost looks like a result from a different formula.
These numbers for Warlocks are incorrect. Warlocks have tested (and I double checked) that the Warlock Int to Crit ratio is around 40 to 1.
Intellect and Crit - teske - 06-05-2006
Quote:These numbers for Warlocks are incorrect. Warlocks have tested (and I double checked) that the Warlock Int to Crit ratio is around 40 to 1.
Right, the second number seems to be totally bogus. I checked with my druid:
I have 328 int and no crit on my gear.
200 casts, 16 crits => 8% crit
According to Tseric I should have had a cri rate of: 328/60 = 5,4%
Or 11 crits.
If instead of using Tserics second column, we simply divide the first coulum by 5. We get these numbers for int per crit.
Warlock 200 - 40
Druid 192 - 38,4
Shaman 160 - 32
Priest 250 - 50
And based on the paladin crit rate:
148 - 29.5
So with 328 int, I should have a crit rate of 8.54. Close enough.
So now the paladin int/crit doesn't look that different from the shaman int/crit ratio. And walocks actually needs less int per crit.
Intellect and Crit - Arnulf - 06-05-2006
I eat my words. I downloaded and installed damage meters. I fought frost giants in Winterspring for over an hour. I used only Flash of Light on myself.
With the Zandalar buff and gear I had 293 Int.
I've got 5 points in Holy Power => +5% crit on holy spells.
I also got +2% crit through gear.
Result: 16.3% crit.
Sometimes I used Holy Shock on the giants. Which, as I later realized, polluted the data a little bit.
![[Image: d9e9b268.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/Arnulf/WoW/d9e9b268.jpg)
![[Image: 805062b0.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/Arnulf/WoW/805062b0.jpg)
Intellect and Crit - oldmandennis - 06-05-2006
Yeah, the numbers he gave simply didn't add up even a little bit. He says all casters should have roughly 5% crit before talents/gear, then throws out numbers that don't support it.
It begs for thourough testing.
/ducks and waits for somebody to hand it to him
If somebody wants to make a project of it, I'll do the shaman stuff.
Intellect and Crit - teske - 06-05-2006
Quote:Yeah, the numbers he gave simply didn't add up even a little bit. He says all casters should have roughly 5% crit before talents/gear, then throws out numbers that don't support it.
It begs for thourough testing.
/ducks and waits for somebody to hand it to him
If somebody wants to make a project of it, I'll do the shaman stuff.
Well, we already have data for paladins, druids and warlocks, which tend to confirm the first column.
The shaman should be relatively easy, Tseric int/crit rate in the second column is twice as big as what I infer from the first column.
Intellect and Crit - MongoJerry - 06-05-2006
Quote:If instead of using Tserics second column, we simply divide the first coulum by 5. We get these numbers for int per crit.
The zero crit% point doesn't have to go through 0 int. I think what Tseric was saying was that the crit forumula is a linear formula with a certain amount of crit%/int with the zero point adjusted to make the "expected" amount of int cause 5% crit.
Intellect and Crit - lemekim - 06-05-2006
Quote:The zero crit% point doesn't have to go through 0 int. I think what Tseric was saying was that the crit forumula is a linear formula with a certain amount of crit%/int with the zero point adjusted to make the "expected" amount of int cause 5% crit.
Except it seems that it doesn't fit the observed data, but dividing the expected Int number by 5 would fit this data.
I still don't understand why it's so hard for Blizzard to have crit% listed in a spell tooltip, along with the spell damage/heal amount tooltip also already modified by any +healing/damage modifiers.
Intellect and Crit - Kevin - 06-05-2006
Quote:Right, the second number seems to be totally bogus. I checked with my druid:
I have 328 int and no crit on my gear.
200 casts, 16 crits => 8% crit
According to Tseric I should have had a cri rate of: 328/60 = 5,4%
Or 11 crits.
No actually according to Tseric you should have [(328-192) / 60] + 5 = 7.26% or 14.5 crits.
At least that is how I interpreted it. At L60 expected Int = 5% crit. Then after that base int level you use the int per crit number. 7.26% is pretty close to 8% for a sample as small as the one you did.
We don't have the paladin base number so I didn't use it my calculations but it could actually be why my crit % was higher.