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Soooo....Mass Effect 3
02-15-2012, 06:45 PM
Post: #21
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-15-2012 02:16 PM)Jester Wrote:  
(02-15-2012 01:19 PM)Bolty Wrote:  I disliked how they sexualized Ashley (she's supposed to be tough, not a supermodel)...

No kidding. Ashley is one of my favourite characters from the whole series, and they seem to have gone in the wrong direction with her. I'll reserve judgement until I see the whole thing, but I don't like the redesign.

Yeah when I saw her in the first cut scene deal my first thought was "What it Miranda doing here? Oh wait that's Ashley? Ohhhhh Kay" But like you we'll see.

While I do like the equipment system of ME2/3 better than 1 (as Bolty has already commented on) I actually liked the ME1 story better and I have a stronger attachment to the characters from it than the ME2 ones (of course there was a lot of crossover). So I'm hoping they give a decent reason for the Ashley redesign and we can get a bit more on the Liara changes that came in ME2. I know they did cover some of it but I'd still like more on it.

I haven't finished the ME3 demo yet, just played the first part on Earth over lunch. But it feels like they mostly just used the ME2 engine and combat system and continued the story and tried to make it a bit more like Halo by throwing in MP stuff.

I have the same UI complaints as Bolty did. My monitor likes 1920x1080 so I'm running the game at that, and some of the stuff is too small. I appreciate cleaner more open UI's but I'd still like to expand some of the elements.

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02-15-2012, 08:29 PM
Post: #22
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-15-2012 06:45 PM)Gnollguy Wrote:  Yeah when I saw her in the first cut scene deal my first thought was "What it Miranda doing here? Oh wait that's Ashley? Ohhhhh Kay" But like you we'll see.

This made me laugh:

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02-15-2012, 10:39 PM
Post: #23
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-14-2012 10:23 PM)Jester Wrote:  When I go back to ME1 and 2 (and I've finished both games more than once in the last two months), the thing that drives me craziest is the inventory in ME1. The customization is worth almost nothing in terms of gameplay, but takes enormous amounts of time. How much omni-gel do I need, exactly? Why do I need eight choices of manufacturer, distinguished only by a sliding bar of stats? A couple of choices of weapons plus ammo powers is a much more sensible way to approach the problem.
I liked ME1s inventory system. My only problem with it was that everything dropped stuff so you had to go through a lot of stuff, most of which I sold or turned into omni-gel, something you can never have too much of. You also had a lot of stat options, so it was more of an RPG than a shooter. I could play my vanguard version of Shepard different ways each time, as opposed to the ME2 version where you had 1 option of play-style. Also, the inventory from ME2 was laughable at best. You had, what, 3 different weapons to choose from each line? Each weapon upgraded the same. Why even bother having multiple weapons at all when every single item acted exactly the same? In ME1 you had to choose between a highly accurate rifle that had fewer shots per heat clip or less firepower. You also had to choose which upgrades you wanted, did you want to increase your damage at the cost of heat dissipation or give that super-accurate rifle the ability to hit a dime a mile away? In ME2 this was nowhere to be found. The resource collecting on the planets was a joke, I wound up with more than enough of each resource to fully upgrade everything without doing much.

Look at Biowares recent games before being taken over by EA: Dragon Age 1, ME1, KotOR. The games give you a lot of customization options so you can play each character the way you want, even within their pre-determined roles. In one playthrough of KotOR I made Bastila use all the Stasis powers. On another I made her a speed demon. In DA I could give my characters nothing but passives or max out their weapon abilities. It was all about choice. In ME2, you have almost no customization options. Is that all EA's doing? I don't know; maybe, maybe not.

Quote:I don't think you do see a steep decrease in overall quality. I think you see one low point - DA2 - and business as usual otherwise.
I've never played Dragon Age 2, so I can't comment on that. Also, please don't assume to know what I do and do not see.

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02-16-2012, 12:00 AM
Post: #24
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-15-2012 08:29 PM)Bolty Wrote:  This made me laugh:
Who said "Supermodel"? Ugh. Not.

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02-16-2012, 01:22 AM (This post was last modified: 02-16-2012 01:29 AM by Lissa.)
Post: #25
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-15-2012 01:19 PM)Bolty Wrote:  Demo's out. Tried it last night.

I disliked how they sexualized Ashley (she's supposed to be tough, not a supermodel), Wrex's voice sounded wrong on more than one line, and the UI elements seemed too small at a high resolution ("where's my targeting reticule?"). Otherwise, it was thoroughly enjoyable, and the battle system was very similar to ME2. Anderson looked older, more haggard, as you'd expect him to.

They seem to use music less than in the previous ME games. There were long stretches without any music to set the tone, whereas music is almost a constant no matter where you are in ME1 and ME2.

My question is this, given what you've seen in the demo, minus Ashley (Tongue), have you changed your opinion on whether you'll pick it up immediately or wait still?


(02-15-2012 06:45 PM)Gnollguy Wrote:  
(02-15-2012 02:16 PM)Jester Wrote:  
(02-15-2012 01:19 PM)Bolty Wrote:  I disliked how they sexualized Ashley (she's supposed to be tough, not a supermodel)...

No kidding. Ashley is one of my favourite characters from the whole series, and they seem to have gone in the wrong direction with her. I'll reserve judgement until I see the whole thing, but I don't like the redesign.

Yeah when I saw her in the first cut scene deal my first thought was "What it Miranda doing here? Oh wait that's Ashley? Ohhhhh Kay" But like you we'll see.

While I do like the equipment system of ME2/3 better than 1 (as Bolty has already commented on) I actually liked the ME1 story better and I have a stronger attachment to the characters from it than the ME2 ones (of course there was a lot of crossover). So I'm hoping they give a decent reason for the Ashley redesign and we can get a bit more on the Liara changes that came in ME2. I know they did cover some of it but I'd still like more on it.

I haven't finished the ME3 demo yet, just played the first part on Earth over lunch. But it feels like they mostly just used the ME2 engine and combat system and continued the story and tried to make it a bit more like Halo by throwing in MP stuff.

I have the same UI complaints as Bolty did. My monitor likes 1920x1080 so I'm running the game at that, and some of the stuff is too small. I appreciate cleaner more open UI's but I'd still like to expand some of the elements.

While I agree the main story was probably better in ME1, I think what really made ME2 shine was the side stories of the NPCs. The growth of Tali from ME1 into ME2 was well done IMO, in ME2 she was a very strong female character, but she also had her vulnerable side (seen in her loyalty quest along with her romance, definitely the best romance in ME2 by a long shot IMO). ME1 established the overall story arc, but ME2 really flushed out the characters IMO.

Besides, let's not forget Garrus and Tali discussing the Elevators on the Citadel. Tongue

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02-16-2012, 10:06 AM (This post was last modified: 02-16-2012 10:23 AM by Jester.)
Post: #26
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-15-2012 10:39 PM)Wyrm Wrote:  You also had a lot of stat options, so it was more of an RPG than a shooter. I could play my vanguard version of Shepard different ways each time, as opposed to the ME2 version where you had 1 option of play-style.

I never found myself running out of options in ME2. Just play a different class, or pick a different specialization. There was plenty of variety, unless you want to play through the game more than six times, which is a lot even by my standards.

The extra variety in ME1 was mostly an illusion anyway. Every Shepard I ever played finished the game with at least 15 spare points, having gotten literally every skill I cared to waste the points on. At least in ME2 I had to give up *something*, an ammo power, a 4th level skill, whatever.

Quote:Why even bother having multiple weapons at all when every single item acted exactly the same?


That's what ME1 was to me. The number of times you had to actually choose between any two relevant stats was basically never. The practical implications of the ammo mods were very small, except for novelty stuff like the High Explosive Rounds. Once you gained access to Spectre tech VII, there was no reason to ever use any other type of gun again - they were simply better than any of the alternatives across the board. Unlike ME2, the guns don't even perform differently except in trivial ways, like giving you tiny quantities of accuracy, or slightly better heat sinking. The rifle/pistol/sniper/shotgun always has the same clip, the same rate of fire, and so on - not interestingly different.

Quote:Also, the inventory from ME2 was laughable at best.

In ME2, if I wanted to pick a sniper rifle, I had the choice between the slow, powerful, "head-shot" Widow, or the 8-clip Viper. If I wanted to pick an assault rifle, I could use the spray-'n-pray shield buster Geth Pulse Rifle, or the 3-burst Vindicator, or the sniper-lite Mattock, or the gatling-style Revenant. Hell, I even remember their names. Those played entirely differently. What does ME1 have like that? Nothing.

The value of an inventory system is in the options it gives you, not in the sheer volume of crap it has.

Quote:The resource collecting on the planets was a joke, I wound up with more than enough of each resource to fully upgrade everything without doing much.

I agree. And yet, so much better than the Mako, that I don't even mind. ME1 was completely wretched for the "accumulate stuff by exploring space" content.

Quote:Look at Biowares recent games before being taken over by EA: Dragon Age 1, ME1, KotOR. The games give you a lot of customization options so you can play each character the way you want, even within their pre-determined roles. In one playthrough of KotOR I made Bastila use all the Stasis powers. On another I made her a speed demon. In DA I could give my characters nothing but passives or max out their weapon abilities. It was all about choice. In ME2, you have almost no customization options. Is that all EA's doing? I don't know; maybe, maybe not.

DA1 was developed, at least in part, on EA's watch. You're also leaving out the turkey - Jade Empire - where customization options were terrible. You could pick between the good weapon and the bad weapon, between being sucky and being good. That was it. KotOR, it doesn't even matter how you develop your character. The game is easy enough that auto-attack suffices to win. The rest is just a fancy light show. I enjoyed the plot, but you could fill a warehouse with the number of ways to break that game.

Quote:Also, please don't assume to know what I do and do not see

The "you" in that sentence was a substitute for "one" - I am not referring to your subjective observations, but rather, what the pattern is in the evidence at hand.

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02-16-2012, 01:07 PM
Post: #27
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-16-2012 01:22 AM)Lissa Wrote:  My question is this, given what you've seen in the demo, minus Ashley (Tongue), have you changed your opinion on whether you'll pick it up immediately or wait still?

There's never any reason to pick up a single player game when it is released. "But it has multiplayer!" Which I'll likely never bother with.

$60 on release day vs $20-$25 four months from now. It's not rocket science. Extra bonus if I want to wait for all the inevitable expensive DLC to be released for a complete play experience, and even more bonus if I wait for some "super edition" to come out with all the DLC bundled.

Made the same argument when Dragon Age II was released. People don't like being told they're making poor decisions, though, and get pretty angry. Then the game sucks, and they get more angry when I swoop in and say "I told you so" after they wasted $60 just to play it on release day. Someday I'll pick up Dragon Age II for $10, and I won't be angry if the game isn't everything I expected/wanted it to be after DA1. Because it's $10.

I learned 10 years ago never to pre-order games. There's simply no rational reason to do so, and the modern game industry is so quick to discount games after release now. The release-day price is for suckers and people who can't control their impulses.

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02-16-2012, 02:38 PM
Post: #28
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-16-2012 01:07 PM)Bolty Wrote:  Angry yet? Big Grin

Furious!

... except that I am in agreement with you. I'll buy games new when it suits me, but there is far better value to be had in waiting. I mean, heck, I even bought Oblivion, after swearing I never would. The five dollar price tag made it look pretty attractive!

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02-16-2012, 03:24 PM
Post: #29
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-16-2012 10:06 AM)Jester Wrote:  The "you" in that sentence was a substitute for "one" - I am not referring to your subjective observations, but rather, what the pattern is in the evidence at hand.
Hence, the need for the Sourthern US invention of "y'all" as the plural of you. But, also it is used as 2nd person singular, meaning "you and yours". Such as, "Have y'all eaten breakfast?"

"Can there be anything so important as to cry out that what we call romance, poetry, intellectual beauty, is the only signal that the supreme Enchanter, or some one in His councils, is speaking of what has been, and shall be again, in the consummation of time?" - William Butler Yeats, 1901, Magic - Ideas of Good and Evil.
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02-16-2012, 03:34 PM (This post was last modified: 02-16-2012 03:34 PM by Lissa.)
Post: #30
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-16-2012 01:07 PM)Bolty Wrote:  
(02-16-2012 01:22 AM)Lissa Wrote:  My question is this, given what you've seen in the demo, minus Ashley (Tongue), have you changed your opinion on whether you'll pick it up immediately or wait still?

There's never any reason to pick up a single player game when it is released. "But it has multiplayer!" Which I'll likely never bother with.

$60 on release day vs $20-$25 four months from now. It's not rocket science. Extra bonus if I want to wait for all the inevitable expensive DLC to be released for a complete play experience, and even more bonus if I wait for some "super edition" to come out with all the DLC bundled.

Made the same argument when Dragon Age II was released. People don't like being told they're making poor decisions, though, and get pretty angry. Then the game sucks, and they get more angry when I swoop in and say "I told you so" after they wasted $60 just to play it on release day. Someday I'll pick up Dragon Age II for $10, and I won't be angry if the game isn't everything I expected/wanted it to be after DA1. Because it's $10.

I learned 10 years ago never to pre-order games. There's simply no rational reason to do so, and the modern game industry is so quick to discount games after release now. The release-day price is for suckers and people who can't control their impulses.

Angry yet? Big Grin

Not at all. Because I don't buy a game on release day for its normal edition. I rather like the little things that they add to the collector's editions and looking through what you get with the collector's edition here, I don't mind the extra money. I agree with your assessment if you're plan is only to get the normal edition of the game, but if you're looking for some of the things that come with the collector's edition, it's worth it to me to get the game on release day.

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02-16-2012, 07:37 PM
Post: #31
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-16-2012 03:24 PM)kandrathe Wrote:  
(02-16-2012 10:06 AM)Jester Wrote:  The "you" in that sentence was a substitute for "one" - I am not referring to your subjective observations, but rather, what the pattern is in the evidence at hand.
Hence, the need for the Sourthern US invention of "y'all" as the plural of you. But, also it is used as 2nd person singular, meaning "you and yours". Such as, "Have y'all eaten breakfast?"

Around here the plural of "you" is "yous".

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02-17-2012, 01:41 AM
Post: #32
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3


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02-17-2012, 11:18 AM (This post was last modified: 02-17-2012 11:22 AM by Jester.)
Post: #33
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
That looks... familiar... somehow...





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02-17-2012, 02:19 PM
Post: #34
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-17-2012 11:18 AM)Jester Wrote:  Afterthought: I just crossed the streams, didn't I.
It explains much. President Johnson was a reaver.

"Can there be anything so important as to cry out that what we call romance, poetry, intellectual beauty, is the only signal that the supreme Enchanter, or some one in His councils, is speaking of what has been, and shall be again, in the consummation of time?" - William Butler Yeats, 1901, Magic - Ideas of Good and Evil.
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02-18-2012, 02:30 AM
Post: #35
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-17-2012 02:19 PM)kandrathe Wrote:  
(02-17-2012 11:18 AM)Jester Wrote:  Afterthought: I just crossed the streams, didn't I.
It explains much. President Johnson was a reaver.

Which one?

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02-18-2012, 05:11 PM
Post: #36
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-16-2012 01:07 PM)Bolty Wrote:  I learned 10 years ago never to pre-order games. There's simply no rational reason to do so, and the modern game industry is so quick to discount games after release now. The release-day price is for suckers and people who can't control their impulses.

The modern game industry is also based around people actually buying games. If people stopped buying games and started waiting until prices fell, the industry would grind to a halt.

Of course, it's not going to happen, but the only reason you can get games so cheap is because the majority buy it when it's released in the first place. Tongue

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02-19-2012, 12:10 AM (This post was last modified: 02-19-2012 04:25 AM by Chesspiece_face.)
Post: #37
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-18-2012 05:11 PM)Taelas Wrote:  
(02-16-2012 01:07 PM)Bolty Wrote:  I learned 10 years ago never to pre-order games. There's simply no rational reason to do so, and the modern game industry is so quick to discount games after release now. The release-day price is for suckers and people who can't control their impulses.

The modern game industry is also based around people actually buying games. If people stopped buying games and started waiting until prices fell, the industry would grind to a halt.

Of course, it's not going to happen, but the only reason you can get games so cheap is because the majority buy it when it's released in the first place. Tongue

Even if you do buy a game on release date there is no reason to pre-order a game anymore. It used to be a valid proposition when the only place that was going to have that new RPG you wanted was EBgames and for a small deposit you could guarantee you would get a copy. That doesn't happen anymore. If you want a game you can find a copy.

Preorders now are just blatant attempts at ripping off customers. "Would you like to preorder a game" = "Would you like to give us an interest free loan for absolutely no reason?"

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02-19-2012, 03:27 PM
Post: #38
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
Considering that I haven't been charged anything for preordering a game... ever... I don't see how that even begins to make sense. Especially since the vast majority of games these days are distributed digitally. But even when I got a physical copy (such as DA2, DAO, ME2), I have never been charged simply for preordering.

I guess if you insist on supporting your FLGS, it depends on the store in question, but I have never felt that need.

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02-19-2012, 03:37 PM
Post: #39
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
(02-19-2012 03:27 PM)Taelas Wrote:  Considering that I haven't been charged anything for preordering a game... ever... I don't see how that even begins to make sense. Especially since the vast majority of games these days are distributed digitally. But even when I got a physical copy (such as DA2, DAO, ME2), I have never been charged simply for preordering.

I guess if you insist on supporting your FLGS, it depends on the store in question, but I have never felt that need.

If you give someone your $60 at the time you get the game, then this is no different from any sale. They get your money, you get their asset.

If you give someone your $60 six months in advance, then they get to earn half a year's interest on it, and you don't. If you could have earned 5%/yr on it, then that's a net transfer of an extra $1.50 to them.

It's not much, but the further in advance you preorder, the more you lose and they gain. If there is no added value in preordering (no extras, no convenience), then you should keep your money and just buy it when it comes out, or take Bolty's advice and just wait a year until it's cheap.

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02-19-2012, 03:51 PM (This post was last modified: 02-19-2012 03:52 PM by Quark.)
Post: #40
RE: Soooo....Mass Effect 3
You don't need to pay money to preorder. There are places that will allow you to preorder with no advance, paying at the time you actually receive the game.

Sadly, many games now have preorder bonuses (and different per store!). Depending on the game, this may end up being a pay-for DLC or not later on.

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