I suppose it will have to be left to our fellow forum dwellers whether I have simply been consumed with hatred beyond the point of objective reason. I certainly despise the man and his works. As far as I am concerned, there is ample, public evidence for very nearly everything I have claimed, and the rest is simply connecting the dots from there. To me, where I am now is where one would end up having payed the slightest attention to Dubya's abysmal presidency, and applying pretty simple reasoning. How you have not yourself come to this point, I cannot say, but are your emotions necessarily more pure than mine? Certainly I am very, very, very far from alone in these beliefs.
As per Jefferson, as I said in my very first post on this tangent, believed in many of the teachings of Jesus. He is a Christian, and is claiming to be a Christian, like one might be a Benthamite, or a Foucauldian. That is to say, he believed in his ethical and philosophical teachings. One might also point out that declaring oneself to *not* be a Christian in those times was like tying your leg to a rock and then trying to swim, a tough go of it at best.
He was not a Christian in the sense that I called before, and call again, the sine qua non of Christianity *as a religion*: belief in the divinity of Christ.
He didn't believe Christ saves you with his blood, or anything else. He didn't believe Christ rose from the dead. He didn't believe that Christ worked miracles. He didn't believe in the virgin birth. He didn't believe the Gospels were the divinely inspired works of anything, instead calling them the hyperbolized work of charlatans. He certainly didn't believe in any church's doctrine since the gospels.
But, regardless of whether this rather questionable 'christianity' still qualifies by one definition or another, the point is that this is very clearly not the Christianity of George Bush. It is scarcely even related.
Glad to know we could end this without it descending into ad hominem attacks. It's always so uncomfortable when that happens.
-Jester
Edit: clarity.
Afterthought: http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/qmadison.htm offers some interesting quotes on the establishment clause, including its applicability to charitable works, by James Madison. Not just the one Jefferson quote, it seems.
As per Jefferson, as I said in my very first post on this tangent, believed in many of the teachings of Jesus. He is a Christian, and is claiming to be a Christian, like one might be a Benthamite, or a Foucauldian. That is to say, he believed in his ethical and philosophical teachings. One might also point out that declaring oneself to *not* be a Christian in those times was like tying your leg to a rock and then trying to swim, a tough go of it at best.
He was not a Christian in the sense that I called before, and call again, the sine qua non of Christianity *as a religion*: belief in the divinity of Christ.
He didn't believe Christ saves you with his blood, or anything else. He didn't believe Christ rose from the dead. He didn't believe that Christ worked miracles. He didn't believe in the virgin birth. He didn't believe the Gospels were the divinely inspired works of anything, instead calling them the hyperbolized work of charlatans. He certainly didn't believe in any church's doctrine since the gospels.
But, regardless of whether this rather questionable 'christianity' still qualifies by one definition or another, the point is that this is very clearly not the Christianity of George Bush. It is scarcely even related.
Quote:There are times when you make Cindy Sheehan seem almost conservative and lucid.
Glad to know we could end this without it descending into ad hominem attacks. It's always so uncomfortable when that happens.
-Jester
Edit: clarity.
Afterthought: http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/qmadison.htm offers some interesting quotes on the establishment clause, including its applicability to charitable works, by James Madison. Not just the one Jefferson quote, it seems.