Is the US headed towards a socialist government?

[kandrathe]

I think it is just a question of definitions. America has always presented itself as the home of the free, the first true democracy etc. But as I wrote in my previous post you have some liberties, other countries have others.

America used to be the land of liberty. I doubt it is so unique anymore. We've had lawyers in Washington DC (correction: and New York) these past 200 years mucking it all up.

I remember that in the 50's communists were persecuted, and in the 20's lynching was a common practice. Now in many senses all religions and races can live together better than in any other country maybe, while marijuana is still prohibited and the drinking age is 21, however a 16 year old can buy a gun. Abortion is however not your own choice but the choice of the majority of the people in your state and the same goes for euthanasia.....your government tells you you don't have the right to die if you want to. If you happen to be gay and you want to get married, tough luck you can't. You at least don't have to pay for the misfortune or mistakes of your fellow country man and choose yourself if you want to help somebody financially.

Well, to start with we'd need to review the "Bill of Rights" in the context of why these rights help to guarantee liberty. I believe you know where I stand on the potpourri of rights you listed above, but fundamental for me in every limitation on my freedom is "why" the government is the instrument of denying me that freedom. So, yes, I ask why my government a) spends money trying to police them, and b) what right they have in trying to keep my fellow citizens from smoking some weed, sleeping with a prostitute, ending their life with dignity, being gay, or holding unpopular political or religious beliefs. I believe most people are entirely clueless about the differences of freedom experienced by those people living in the American colonies in the 1790's, and that experienced by people today.

All these points can give us hours of discussion here on the lounge, but the point is, I don't think you are more free than an inhabitant of say France, Holland, Switzerland or Ireland. The point is, if you regard having a gun as the pinnacle of freedom, you for sure want to live in the USA or Finland (or Rwanda of course) if however you want to be sure you can decide to have an abortion you will probably choose for another country. But saying that one of these countries is more free than another I don't know? Saying over and over again that you are the land of the free doesn't make it true, just as saying that a communist is inherently evil doesn't make that true.

I don't think we are the land of the free, but I think we should be. The right to own a gun is focusing on the wrong notion. The proper notion is that citizens should have the right to defend themselves from even their own government if necessary. Now, about communism... Did you know that the first Americans, the pilgrims, practiced the collectivist approach of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need", but it was soon abandoned because they were dying. I would say that Governor William Bradford learned first hand the evils of collectivism.

But back to your social point. Freedom might be the fact that if you have some misfortune like an accident, losing your job or getting a handicapped baby you can anyway depend on the state to help you take care of life, freedom might also mean that you can earn your own money, don't pay taxes and decide 100% of what you want to do with it. It might also mean that if you don't feel like working or feel like working very slowly your government still gives you welfare. Well, I think both the USA and most European states are somewhere in between these last two statements and more close to the first. We are talking about small differences.

Did you happen to catch this story about the single, bankrupt, mother of six children with no means of support having IVF (invitro fertilization) of eight eggs, with the result now of her having a new set of octuplets? If people were responsible for their own messes, and successes, they wouldn't do stupid stuff like this which would be suicidal in all but the most socialist of nations. There are only small differences between Europe and the USA, however the biggest is that Europe freely declares itself socialist. Here we pretend we live in the land of capitalist free markets, and have the exclusive on human rights. I think there is a striking difference between asking citizens to pay their "fair" share of necessary government, and asking citizens to pay for a global Empire, or participate in various schemes to redistribute(balance) their wealth.

If you really want to complain about lack of freedom I think social pressure to belong to a certain religion is a far greater problem in many countries in the world (also in different orders of magnitude of course)

I agree. Religion is a hot button issue in many cultures, including the USA. Here, the tyranny of the majority (Judeo-Christian) has often run rough shod over many various minority groups, which should not happen in a society dedicated to secular law. Often the courts are the last resort to protect these minorities, and most often make the right decision.

Edit: I remembered that the Capital used to be New York before the darned British (Canadians) came south and burned it.