DOMA and Prop 8. Both History.
#70
(07-03-2013, 10:35 AM)eppie Wrote: Let me phrase it differently.
I modern western societies we want men and women to be equal. We give them the same right and we try to let them participate in our workforce in equal shares. We know there are differences between men and women but our modern society is so evolved that we find it unfair that just because women carry babies they for example cannot have jobs or so.

I'm with you so far, mostly.

Quote:The only issues we have with polygamy is among religious groups who don't share our same equality ideas. They only consider their god when it comes to rule-making and it is obvious that their set of rules is based on men coming before women.

Here's where we part company. There is no "us," to which religious groups are "them." We're all citizens of democratic governments of various kinds. We have rights to voice our opinions, and to influence the political process. We also have rights to be protected, to some degree, against other peoples' attempts to restrict our rights. I have no religious beliefs of my own, and think that religious doctrine has no place in law. Nevertheless, religious people get the same consideration as citizens that I do as an irreligious person. I don't consider myself the part of some great secular "we," opposed to the religious "they."

Quote:A polygamous marriage between people who are really equals should be OK.

Then it should be legal.

Quote:But practically we both now that more than 99% of polygamy cases are from sub-society in which women are second grade citizens.A state (in my opinion) should also protect its citizens from other citizen who psychologically pressure them into doing things, also when that is part of a religion.

Even if we grant that to be true, it is also true of monogamous marriages in these supposed "sub-societies". The correct remedy in that case (which I absolutely do not advocate) would be to ban such people from "unequal" groups from getting married at all, not to prevent everyone else from polygamy. I think that's a terrible idea, but it makes more sense, assuming your argument to be valid.

-Jester
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Messages In This Thread
DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 06-26-2013, 04:39 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Mavfin - 06-26-2013, 10:28 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 06-27-2013, 01:44 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 06-27-2013, 11:46 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 06-28-2013, 02:13 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by ShadowHM - 06-28-2013, 11:38 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by bldavis - 06-27-2013, 08:29 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Tal - 06-28-2013, 04:39 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 06-28-2013, 12:46 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by DeeBye - 06-28-2013, 04:19 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by bldavis - 06-28-2013, 05:59 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by LavCat - 06-28-2013, 10:54 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by bldavis - 06-29-2013, 02:55 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Alram - 06-28-2013, 04:32 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 06-28-2013, 11:36 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Bun-Bun - 06-28-2013, 05:40 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Alram - 06-28-2013, 09:37 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 06-28-2013, 06:30 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 06-29-2013, 12:43 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 06-28-2013, 11:34 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by LavCat - 06-29-2013, 01:22 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 06-29-2013, 12:06 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Nystul - 06-29-2013, 10:56 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 06-30-2013, 04:42 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 06-29-2013, 05:53 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 06-29-2013, 05:56 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 06-29-2013, 10:23 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 06-30-2013, 07:07 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-01-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-01-2013, 03:24 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-01-2013, 05:54 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-02-2013, 05:40 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-02-2013, 10:07 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-02-2013, 11:51 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-02-2013, 12:27 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-02-2013, 03:02 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 06-30-2013, 11:47 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Taem - 06-30-2013, 05:15 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 07-02-2013, 01:14 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-02-2013, 03:07 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 07-02-2013, 03:42 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-02-2013, 04:02 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 07-02-2013, 04:23 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Bolty - 07-02-2013, 04:47 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-02-2013, 05:02 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-02-2013, 07:59 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Lissa - 07-03-2013, 05:36 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 07-02-2013, 06:58 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Mavfin - 07-02-2013, 09:53 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-03-2013, 06:02 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-03-2013, 08:26 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-03-2013, 09:18 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-03-2013, 09:21 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-03-2013, 10:35 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-03-2013, 12:59 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-03-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-03-2013, 02:20 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-03-2013, 04:10 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-04-2013, 01:00 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-04-2013, 07:06 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-03-2013, 01:26 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Mavfin - 07-03-2013, 11:54 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Mavfin - 07-03-2013, 05:13 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 07-03-2013, 04:25 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-04-2013, 04:29 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-04-2013, 05:29 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-04-2013, 06:11 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Mavfin - 07-04-2013, 08:49 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 07-05-2013, 02:23 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-05-2013, 05:25 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-05-2013, 04:13 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-05-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-05-2013, 08:58 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-06-2013, 05:40 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-07-2013, 08:15 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-09-2013, 02:49 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-09-2013, 05:23 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-08-2013, 05:49 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 07-08-2013, 03:27 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-09-2013, 01:13 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-09-2013, 10:32 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-09-2013, 12:05 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 07-09-2013, 12:05 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-09-2013, 03:19 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-09-2013, 07:45 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-10-2013, 07:10 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-11-2013, 06:08 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-09-2013, 11:25 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-09-2013, 07:01 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-10-2013, 06:22 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-10-2013, 12:06 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-10-2013, 11:23 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-11-2013, 03:26 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-11-2013, 05:41 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 07-10-2013, 12:00 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-11-2013, 07:52 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-11-2013, 12:21 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Bolty - 07-11-2013, 05:58 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by LavCat - 07-12-2013, 03:08 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-12-2013, 03:32 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Mavfin - 07-12-2013, 06:44 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-13-2013, 09:41 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-13-2013, 04:43 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-13-2013, 09:29 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-14-2013, 07:01 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-14-2013, 09:04 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Bolty - 07-12-2013, 08:57 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Bolty - 07-15-2013, 07:28 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 07-11-2013, 04:34 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-12-2013, 10:29 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 07-12-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-12-2013, 05:19 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-12-2013, 06:12 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 07-11-2013, 04:59 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by shoju - 07-12-2013, 02:52 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-14-2013, 12:22 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-16-2013, 12:19 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-16-2013, 06:17 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-16-2013, 10:41 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-16-2013, 12:24 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-16-2013, 01:13 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-16-2013, 01:21 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Jester - 07-16-2013, 02:09 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by LavCat - 07-15-2013, 12:47 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-16-2013, 03:41 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by eppie - 07-17-2013, 07:55 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by kandrathe - 07-17-2013, 08:16 PM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by LavCat - 07-17-2013, 08:36 AM
RE: DOMA and Prop 8. Both History. - by Nystul - 07-19-2013, 10:41 AM

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