08-12-2013, 02:34 PM
[quote='Jester' pid='207297' dateline='1376315227']
It's not so simple as that.[/quote]
Indeed, that is the point I was trying to make.
[quote='Jester' pid='207297' dateline='1376315227']
Swimmers regularly shave, because it gives them an advantage. And wear speedos rather than baggy trunks. And goggles. Are those advantages unfair? Why not just allow them all, rather than ban them all? How are we supposed to know beforehand what's going to be banned, and what not?
[quote]
It is not the shark suit per-se as some divinely created 'wrong' it is using it while other don't.....and going 10 % faster just because of it. In ice skating they started using skates where the blade is not attached to the heel of the shoe anymore......this is allowed and now everybody uses them. Same example different choice.
Anyway, everyone in swimming agrees that a race between a person with a shark suit and one without is not a real race.
[quote='Jester' pid='207297' dateline='1376315227']
Correct. It's not cheating until they ban it.
[quote]
If through some coincidence it isn't written in the rulebook of javelin throwing you can use a javelin with remotely controllable wings that flap out mid-flight, and someone does during the Olympic final it is cheating in all but the legal sense of the word. Things GET banned because they are perceived by most as cheating and because they were not banned before. Of course the person doing it will not get punished because it is not legally wrong.
[quote='Jester' pid='207297' dateline='1376315227']
The spirit of a game is (largely) competitive. You do what you have to to perform as well as you can. You train harder. You eat and exercise smarter. You adopt better tactics. You get the best equipment. You play within the rules. Don't like the rules? Get them changed, or play a different sport.
Different sports, different rules. What is "in the spirit" of hockey would be grounds for immediate elimination in figure skating. Wearing thick protective armour is normal in american football, and illegal in taekwondo.
To frame this in terms of the original discussion: If the IOC said that shark suits were perfectly legal, would it still be against the "spirit" of competitive swimming to wear one? Would you be a hypocrite for wearing one, assuming you also thought they made the wrong decision? I don't think so.
[quote]
No me neither.
[quote='Jester' pid='207297' dateline='1376315227']
This is going to be another one of those "respecting musicians" conversations, isn't it? Why on earth would they pay star drivers lots of money, if teams could just put anybody with a driver's licence behind the wheel of their car, and have the same chance of winning?
-Jester
[/quote]
I don't know, ask Michael Schumacher.
As for that; you know why multinational publicly traded companies pay their CEOs so much? Because they do such a good job and no-one else can? No it is mainly because stock prices go up........shareholder think people that get more will be better for stock prices because the company takes their hiring of management serious.
Most companies would do just as good (maybe better) when they would pay for example half. Of course paying 10 or 20 million for a company that turns over 5 billion a year doesn't make a difference and will not create too much outrage, and because CEO and board basically decide each others paychecks they can do this. (by the way, this is not my opinion, I read this years ago in an article about a research from some psychologist)
Money rolling around in F1 is so much because of advertisement, it doesn't really matter what you pay a driver. That doesn't mean everyone with a drivers licence could do the same but they hardly searched the entire globe for the best driver right?
Michael Schumacher made what? 20 million per year? When he came back and drove another car he didn't win a race anymore.....but probably he was just too old right?
NAscar is a much more fair sport with that respect I guess.
Samuel Eto'o has the highest wage of any football player in the world. IS he the best? Is he close to the best? I don't think so, he was attracted by a guy wanting to advertise himself by buying a football club and showing the world how serious he is and how much he can pay.
Professional sports is about money....some players are bought just because they sell so many T-shirts!. Money and how good a player you are don't always go 1 on 1.
It's not so simple as that.[/quote]
Indeed, that is the point I was trying to make.
[quote='Jester' pid='207297' dateline='1376315227']
Swimmers regularly shave, because it gives them an advantage. And wear speedos rather than baggy trunks. And goggles. Are those advantages unfair? Why not just allow them all, rather than ban them all? How are we supposed to know beforehand what's going to be banned, and what not?
[quote]
It is not the shark suit per-se as some divinely created 'wrong' it is using it while other don't.....and going 10 % faster just because of it. In ice skating they started using skates where the blade is not attached to the heel of the shoe anymore......this is allowed and now everybody uses them. Same example different choice.
Anyway, everyone in swimming agrees that a race between a person with a shark suit and one without is not a real race.
[quote='Jester' pid='207297' dateline='1376315227']
Correct. It's not cheating until they ban it.
[quote]
If through some coincidence it isn't written in the rulebook of javelin throwing you can use a javelin with remotely controllable wings that flap out mid-flight, and someone does during the Olympic final it is cheating in all but the legal sense of the word. Things GET banned because they are perceived by most as cheating and because they were not banned before. Of course the person doing it will not get punished because it is not legally wrong.
[quote='Jester' pid='207297' dateline='1376315227']
The spirit of a game is (largely) competitive. You do what you have to to perform as well as you can. You train harder. You eat and exercise smarter. You adopt better tactics. You get the best equipment. You play within the rules. Don't like the rules? Get them changed, or play a different sport.
Different sports, different rules. What is "in the spirit" of hockey would be grounds for immediate elimination in figure skating. Wearing thick protective armour is normal in american football, and illegal in taekwondo.
To frame this in terms of the original discussion: If the IOC said that shark suits were perfectly legal, would it still be against the "spirit" of competitive swimming to wear one? Would you be a hypocrite for wearing one, assuming you also thought they made the wrong decision? I don't think so.
[quote]
No me neither.
[quote='Jester' pid='207297' dateline='1376315227']
This is going to be another one of those "respecting musicians" conversations, isn't it? Why on earth would they pay star drivers lots of money, if teams could just put anybody with a driver's licence behind the wheel of their car, and have the same chance of winning?
-Jester
[/quote]
I don't know, ask Michael Schumacher.
As for that; you know why multinational publicly traded companies pay their CEOs so much? Because they do such a good job and no-one else can? No it is mainly because stock prices go up........shareholder think people that get more will be better for stock prices because the company takes their hiring of management serious.
Most companies would do just as good (maybe better) when they would pay for example half. Of course paying 10 or 20 million for a company that turns over 5 billion a year doesn't make a difference and will not create too much outrage, and because CEO and board basically decide each others paychecks they can do this. (by the way, this is not my opinion, I read this years ago in an article about a research from some psychologist)
Money rolling around in F1 is so much because of advertisement, it doesn't really matter what you pay a driver. That doesn't mean everyone with a drivers licence could do the same but they hardly searched the entire globe for the best driver right?
Michael Schumacher made what? 20 million per year? When he came back and drove another car he didn't win a race anymore.....but probably he was just too old right?
NAscar is a much more fair sport with that respect I guess.
Samuel Eto'o has the highest wage of any football player in the world. IS he the best? Is he close to the best? I don't think so, he was attracted by a guy wanting to advertise himself by buying a football club and showing the world how serious he is and how much he can pay.
Professional sports is about money....some players are bought just because they sell so many T-shirts!. Money and how good a player you are don't always go 1 on 1.