Roane,Jan 5 2005, 06:48 PM Wrote:You've made your disagreement very clear. I, for one, understand that you don't agree with the decision. However, I would encourage you to find a way to constructively reply, perhaps suggesting some sort of middle ground. We all don't have to agree, but it does help when we all get along to some point, and show some respect for each other.
Past the first sentence, this paragraph is going completely off point. No one ever said anything, one way or the other, about who the Lounge will or will not accept. Additionally, no one made you sound like anything. Your posts are reading (and perhaps it is not your intent) as antagonism, not discussion. I would suggest that it's this 'tone' that may be inspiring any perceived friction.
We all want people in the guild that will contribute on both the site and in the game. However, an MMO's culture is not the same as the culture following a game like Diablo or NWN or Warcraft. The pool of people playing at any one time on the same server is larger, and interactions have more lasting effects. Social connections are not only important -- they are critical to success.
What we are trying to allow for is the possibilty -- not the surety -- that we will, at various rare points, want to invite my theoretical daughter, or Tal's wife, or that rare truly exceptional player that we (collectively, not individually) run into. My first response, given such a situation, would be to point them to the site, so that they can get a feel for what our little subculture is like, to make sure that they think it's a good fit for them, as I think it may be.
However, as I cannot measure how much someone does or doesn't read the site, and I am not willing to use post count as a measure of contribution, I don't think it's in anyone's best interest to turn someone away because they're not part of what some might perceive as an 'in crowd' here. And even though you've said it's not about post count, I feel like that's what you're asking us to do. I'm not sure how else 'history' would be measured. If I am wrong, then please let me know what standard, in concrete terms, you would like to use as a ticket to guild membership.
[right][snapback]64512[/snapback][/right]
I don't think I can use the quote function well enough, but in his post above of 12:08 am, Tal said: "No I am realistic in my expectations of the folk that play on Stormrage that they will want to guild with their friends and family. Rather than creating a hostile environment by informing people they cannot do this I have made what I feel is a fair compromise. Thanks for kicking my good intentions in the teeth." Correctly or not I took this statement as an accusation that I proposed excluding people (specifically family and friends of guild members) from the guild, and hence painted me as an exclusionist.
In contrast, I argue that just as the lounge is an inclusive place, so to is the guild, since the guild is open to everyone here.
The site faq is intentionally vague as to lurker -- and rightly so -- but your question to me about criteria for guild membership is a fair one, and I will attempt to answer it:
1.) Someone asking to join the guild should be a registered member of the lounge.
2.) Any lurker who has not previously posted should be expected to post a note of introduction prior to joining the guild. Further, if someone is an infrequent poster it would be polite to post a similar introduction.
I am aware that current lounge policy discourages posts of introduction. I am not advocating such posts. I would hope that people wanting to play WoW in a guild with fellow lurkers would be known through their participation in other types of threads, so that no further introduction would be necessary. I lurked for a good while before I felt comfortable registering and posting here. This site and more recently the basin are the only two message boards I have ever registered for or participated on. Having an introduction thread, as someone (I think Lochnar) suggested would possibly make it easier for people to get up the courage to post.
I am not in favor of cliques, in groups, hierarchies, or post counts. I regret that my words above would lead anyone to think so.
Lastly, my expectations for the guild were not solely based on my imagination. I urge you and anyone following this discussion to read the following two threads that pertain to the formation of the guild:
http://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/lofiver....php/t4599.html
http://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/lofiver....php/t4711.html
I feel angry and betrayed. I thought we had reached consensus. I apologize that my tone in this thread has been antagonistic.
Edit: misspelled "function".
"I may be old, but I'm not dead."