01-24-2006, 10:48 PM
So much to respond to.
1. As for runs for this week. I haven't even started the butcher questline and would like to. I need a tribute run that doesn't kill Kromcrush to get the quest for DM West, I'd like to do that before doing DM:W. I need to kill the emperor. I need to kill Urok Doomhowl in LBRS as we failed that quest last time (and I take responsibility for that). I still need to 5 man Baron. I don't really have a preference this week but I'd like to get somewhere I can get a quest out of the log. :) But that has never stopped me from going somewhere else before. :)
2. I'm for a guild alliance. I'm not for recruiting into Lurkers as, well the Lurker guilds are intended to be places for people who already read the lounge to have an easier time to get together. There is already discussion that too much guild stuff happens here and not enough strat stuff.
3. The alliance on Stormrage only uses points for the 40 man instances. We use a zero sum system that basically means (assuming the loot drops for the class) that the more time you spend raiding the more loot you will get. It also doesn't completely shut new people out of loot since on average (again assuming the loot drops which it doesn't for our priests) half the class will be positive and half the class will be negative so a new person starts in the middle of the system.
We don't use this on ZG runs or other smaller raids. We don't quite have a formal loot system for the non 40 mans but we are looking at doing something like:
Base rule: You may win, by rolling Need, one blue/purple and one set per run provided you immediately equip the item (no rolling need on BoEs and then disposing of them as gifts or through the AH). Further items of this classification may end up being yours because nobody else wants them, but you are limited to winning one of these items by Need per run.
Item one: BoEs.
- green/blue BoEs: roll need if you need it on the toon you are playing, roll greed otherwise; discussions on whether the need to give the item to an alt or someone in particular who is not on the raid may be taken up after the roll, but the item's winner has final say.
- purple BoEs: roll need if you need it on the toon you are playing, pass otherwise, raid will determine dispensation of the item either by assigning it to someone, or simply rolling greed.
Item two: BoPs
- ALL BoPs: roll need if you need it as an upgrade for the toon you are playing. Roll greed if you can use it but you have already won a blue/purple or set. It's better to see the item used than DE'd. Pass if you won't wear it. If no one takes it, roll greed for the item or the shard if there is an enchanter.
Item three: BoP repeatable quest drops (Corruptor's Scourgestones and the like): roll need until you've gotten one on this raid. Roll greed thereafter. If you're already exalted with AD, PASS.
Item four: Chromatic Scales, Abomination Stitchings, etc: If you need them, roll need until you've gotten one on this raid; shift to greed thereafter. If you don't need them (which includes not knowing what they're for), PASS.
That's kind of a base rule set with modifications that many groups use. The points of contention are on BoP blues but I find that in a family type group the you can roll greed and win more than one BoP is nicer. If we play with these people enough we'll know if they are "loot whores" who are rolling need/greed on BoP's they don't really need because they want to make sure they get the shard or the 2-5 gold it might vendor for.
It's not a lot different than what we do on our 5 mans now. It's also open for tweaking and discussion and I bring it up here for a base for us to go from. As mentioned this is not currently a formal rule system used by any of the alliance guilds. We are discussing it though. It's a comprimise between speed and fairness.
There are some things in ZG that would need special rules. The coins for instance. Most common ways are for everyone to greed all of them and then do exchanges for the ones they need afterwards. Roll greed on the ones they can use now (have the rep for) and greed or pass on the others. Have them all go to "banker" toon and deal with distribution outside the raid. Banker can be used in a full on greed them all system too. You can send them to the bank on a 1 to 1 credit system. Each coin you send in you can get another of the type you want out this just cuts out the individual bartering. Some groups consider the bracers and other quest items as your blue/purple for that run, others consider them seperate.
4. As much as I would like to help out with setting up an alliance I'm not sure I've got the energy to do it without having to take away time from the folks on Stormrage and this issue tears the hell out of me. I really want to see you guys on Terenas do this stuff and I have experience with it, but I don't want to help lead two different groups, I don't think I can. I want to spend more time on both servers. I want to raid. I want to alt. I want to PvP. I want to do it on both servers too. :) However since I'm not actually driven to get to the new content at any speed I'm OK with dropping down my raiding time on Stormrage and upping it on Terenas. The only thing I've got going for me on Stormrage that makes me needed is that I'm willing to lead, and I'm still the highest FR warrior but that shouldn't be the case for long and they have enough leaders that me being there less won't kill them. Though it'll hurt to lose the interactions with them for me.
5. Some of the feelings of Terenas Lurkers mirror those of Stormrage Lurkers from months ago. You have one toon, that is who you want to play and you want to see the end game content with your friends. This caused a lot of stress for both sides. I can't blame anyone for it, even if I do get temporarily bitter about it. You have the advantage of some of us having dealt with this before and being in a group that has a lot of members ready to raid and wanting to work on it more. There was much of that not there on Stormrage. I know I wasn't ready to raid at the time. You've also got the less satisfying option, as mentioned, of tagging along with us on Stormrage. We would love to have you there and work with you all too. :) Or course I keep trying to get the Stormrage people on the Terenas server too so that I don't have to choose as much. :) I don't think we'll have the same sort of problems we had on Stormrage. Problems that I reget to say I was a part of creating or at least making worse.
6. I'm around for advice and insights. I will try to stay out of the leader rolls unless you really need me to (which we shouldn't it seems to me). You guys are great and I'm so glad I'm able to play with you all and I miss that I couldn't for the months that even seeing someone play horde would cause panic attacks.
Ah well lets have some more fun on Friday! :)
1. As for runs for this week. I haven't even started the butcher questline and would like to. I need a tribute run that doesn't kill Kromcrush to get the quest for DM West, I'd like to do that before doing DM:W. I need to kill the emperor. I need to kill Urok Doomhowl in LBRS as we failed that quest last time (and I take responsibility for that). I still need to 5 man Baron. I don't really have a preference this week but I'd like to get somewhere I can get a quest out of the log. :) But that has never stopped me from going somewhere else before. :)
2. I'm for a guild alliance. I'm not for recruiting into Lurkers as, well the Lurker guilds are intended to be places for people who already read the lounge to have an easier time to get together. There is already discussion that too much guild stuff happens here and not enough strat stuff.
3. The alliance on Stormrage only uses points for the 40 man instances. We use a zero sum system that basically means (assuming the loot drops for the class) that the more time you spend raiding the more loot you will get. It also doesn't completely shut new people out of loot since on average (again assuming the loot drops which it doesn't for our priests) half the class will be positive and half the class will be negative so a new person starts in the middle of the system.
We don't use this on ZG runs or other smaller raids. We don't quite have a formal loot system for the non 40 mans but we are looking at doing something like:
Base rule: You may win, by rolling Need, one blue/purple and one set per run provided you immediately equip the item (no rolling need on BoEs and then disposing of them as gifts or through the AH). Further items of this classification may end up being yours because nobody else wants them, but you are limited to winning one of these items by Need per run.
Item one: BoEs.
- green/blue BoEs: roll need if you need it on the toon you are playing, roll greed otherwise; discussions on whether the need to give the item to an alt or someone in particular who is not on the raid may be taken up after the roll, but the item's winner has final say.
- purple BoEs: roll need if you need it on the toon you are playing, pass otherwise, raid will determine dispensation of the item either by assigning it to someone, or simply rolling greed.
Item two: BoPs
- ALL BoPs: roll need if you need it as an upgrade for the toon you are playing. Roll greed if you can use it but you have already won a blue/purple or set. It's better to see the item used than DE'd. Pass if you won't wear it. If no one takes it, roll greed for the item or the shard if there is an enchanter.
Item three: BoP repeatable quest drops (Corruptor's Scourgestones and the like): roll need until you've gotten one on this raid. Roll greed thereafter. If you're already exalted with AD, PASS.
Item four: Chromatic Scales, Abomination Stitchings, etc: If you need them, roll need until you've gotten one on this raid; shift to greed thereafter. If you don't need them (which includes not knowing what they're for), PASS.
That's kind of a base rule set with modifications that many groups use. The points of contention are on BoP blues but I find that in a family type group the you can roll greed and win more than one BoP is nicer. If we play with these people enough we'll know if they are "loot whores" who are rolling need/greed on BoP's they don't really need because they want to make sure they get the shard or the 2-5 gold it might vendor for.
It's not a lot different than what we do on our 5 mans now. It's also open for tweaking and discussion and I bring it up here for a base for us to go from. As mentioned this is not currently a formal rule system used by any of the alliance guilds. We are discussing it though. It's a comprimise between speed and fairness.
There are some things in ZG that would need special rules. The coins for instance. Most common ways are for everyone to greed all of them and then do exchanges for the ones they need afterwards. Roll greed on the ones they can use now (have the rep for) and greed or pass on the others. Have them all go to "banker" toon and deal with distribution outside the raid. Banker can be used in a full on greed them all system too. You can send them to the bank on a 1 to 1 credit system. Each coin you send in you can get another of the type you want out this just cuts out the individual bartering. Some groups consider the bracers and other quest items as your blue/purple for that run, others consider them seperate.
4. As much as I would like to help out with setting up an alliance I'm not sure I've got the energy to do it without having to take away time from the folks on Stormrage and this issue tears the hell out of me. I really want to see you guys on Terenas do this stuff and I have experience with it, but I don't want to help lead two different groups, I don't think I can. I want to spend more time on both servers. I want to raid. I want to alt. I want to PvP. I want to do it on both servers too. :) However since I'm not actually driven to get to the new content at any speed I'm OK with dropping down my raiding time on Stormrage and upping it on Terenas. The only thing I've got going for me on Stormrage that makes me needed is that I'm willing to lead, and I'm still the highest FR warrior but that shouldn't be the case for long and they have enough leaders that me being there less won't kill them. Though it'll hurt to lose the interactions with them for me.
5. Some of the feelings of Terenas Lurkers mirror those of Stormrage Lurkers from months ago. You have one toon, that is who you want to play and you want to see the end game content with your friends. This caused a lot of stress for both sides. I can't blame anyone for it, even if I do get temporarily bitter about it. You have the advantage of some of us having dealt with this before and being in a group that has a lot of members ready to raid and wanting to work on it more. There was much of that not there on Stormrage. I know I wasn't ready to raid at the time. You've also got the less satisfying option, as mentioned, of tagging along with us on Stormrage. We would love to have you there and work with you all too. :) Or course I keep trying to get the Stormrage people on the Terenas server too so that I don't have to choose as much. :) I don't think we'll have the same sort of problems we had on Stormrage. Problems that I reget to say I was a part of creating or at least making worse.
6. I'm around for advice and insights. I will try to stay out of the leader rolls unless you really need me to (which we shouldn't it seems to me). You guys are great and I'm so glad I'm able to play with you all and I miss that I couldn't for the months that even seeing someone play horde would cause panic attacks.
Ah well lets have some more fun on Friday! :)
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It's all just zeroes and ones and duct tape in the end.
It's all just zeroes and ones and duct tape in the end.