07-15-2003, 11:35 PM
A Weapon Testerâs Report
There has been speculation over the years about the effect of fire bow damage on monster HP regeneration. Practically all agree that fire bow damage is âbuggyâ and erratic, and many concur that one hit from a fire bow will stop monster HP regeneration entirely. In order to affirm these speculations, one of my gaming partners designed a series of tests based on elemental bows, most often fire-damage bows since they are "known" to stop monster hit point regeneration.
Before reporting the findings I would like to acknowledge the following people who either helped in the testing, contributed information, or suggested certain tests. My thanks to Attika who designed most of the tests, to Tristan who volunteered to work side by side with me in order to verify results, and to WildViking who generously loaned equipment and by whose skepticism and speculations the weapons testing process was dramatically improved and enriched.
For purposes of testing a reliable third party program was used that shows the decline of monster hit points during the process of the kill for all non-boss monsters and Diablo himself. (The HPs for bosses other than Diablo were not displayed with this program, and therefore could not be assessed individually.) The effect of this software is much like what you see if you play Hellfire:The Dark on Kali using an item âof Seeing.â On your screen at all times when you are facing a foe, its HPs are displayed and you can actually see the number of monster HPs âticking downâ as you kill the foe. Itâs like a counter.
Additionally, at certain points in the testing process Tristan and I fine tuned our characters' set ups so that their damage would match identically. When evaluating our results, please remember that Trisâ and my characterâs damage is always the same. I will refer to this as our âbalanced damage set ups.â
There were SEVERAL unusual facts that turned up in the course of the tests. They are summarized at the very end of this report, for those who do not wish to read through all the verbiage. Some of them may amaze you! I know they surprised us!
1. Fire bows do indeed stop monster hit point regeneration. Fire based spells do not. Fire melee weapons do not. Immolator does not. Magic based spells do not. Lightning bows do not. Lightning melee weapons do not. Lightning based spells do not. Sparking Mail does not. But fire bows do stop monster HP regeneration dead in its tracks with just one shot.
I conducted many tests on this, but the first one was the most memorable.
THE ACID TEST
Following Attikaâs instructions I armed Sabra (clvl 45, high A/C Damage Queen) with Flamedart and set off for Caves. There I found a lone Poison Spitter and shot it once with Flamedart. Its HPs dropped from 295 to 207 and stayed at 207, as I allowed it to follow me back to the stairs where my TP was located. I then stayed with the injured beast, Stone Cursing it all the while, and waited to see if HP regeneration would commence at some point. (Note: Stone Curse does not stop HP regeneration in monsters that have not sustained Fire-Bow damage.)
After many minutes and nearly all my pots had passed, I exited the level via my TP to buy some more pots. When I returned to the level, the Spitterâs HPs began to regenerate immediately and rapidly, shooting up to 215 in the time it took me to get off the first screenie.
I shot it once more (post-screenie) and its HPs dropped to 189. Stone Cursed it, swilled pots, let it chase me around for a bit. Minutes later, HPs still at 189.
I killed it, and rustled up a Mudman, isolated him and repeated the test. All results were consistent. But, since a lone Mudman canât hit Sabra when she is in w/s set up, I stuck her in a corner with her SS and CC, and let him bat away while I did a few things around the house, only checking in periodically.
After a thorough tidying up of the family room and folding some laundry, I found Sabra still unscathed in her corner with the Mudmanâs hit points the same as after the first shot from Flamedart.
No regeneration had occurred. That was enough for me. I was convinced that no HP regeneration was EVER going to occur after that long a time.
2. Fire bows stop monster hit point regeneration in FIRE IMMUNE monsters, along with all other monsters, bosses and Diablo included! Concerning bosses this is an educated guess, as the software does not display the hit point regeneration (or lack thereof) for bosses. However, since the flag to stop regeneration when hit by a fire bow works on all regular monsters, all fire resistant monsters, all fire IMMUNE monsters and Diablo himself, it seems reasonable that it works versus bosses as well.
FIRE DRILL
Tristan, using his arty mage, and Sabra were delighted by the prospect of Attikaâs test of fire-bow damage vs. fire immune foes. For our purposes, we settled on Hell difficulty SoulBurners. Who wouldnât want to torture one of those?
Having selected a prime, bare-breasted target, we found that one shot from Sabraâs Flamedart STOPPED HER REGENERATION COLD, while Trisâ high level Fireball left her unfazed. Other fire immune monsters responded with the same result.
3. Hidden of all types, including Illusion Weavers, when damaged take off running and disappear to "heal". However, after just one shot from a fire-bow, when Hiddens returned they still displayed the same damage that had been dealt them before they disappeared. No "healing" had occurred, although they left the scene of the battle and disappeared. The fire-bow damage overcame their ability to regenerate.
The same may be true of Gargoyles, when they land and sit down to speed regeneration. It seems probable that, having sustained fire-bow damage, they would not regenerate after sitting to heal, but once fire-bow damage is sustained by Gargoyles and HP regeneration stops, they NO LONGER SIT DOWN TO HEAL.
Perhaps one could construe that they âknowâ it would be futile, and that is, in itself, an interesting premise, since Hidden still fled and Scavs still ingested carrion. Could Gargoyles be the sharpest tacks in Diabloâs box?
4. When there are two players on the same level and one player damages a foe with a fire-bow and then leaves the level, the HPS seen by the player remaining on the level stay the same as when the last fire-bow shot was loosed. When the player who damaged the foe with the fire-bow returns to the level, the damaged monster will begin regenerating its hit points on the returning playerâs screen, but ONLY FOR the player who did the damage, then left and reentered the level. The damaged monsterâs HPs stayed the same for the player who remained on the level the entire time.
WildViking was with Tristan and me during the previous discovery and did he ever put us through our paces! His skepticism and Teutonic intransigence coupled with his high level knowledge of fire damage and his innate curiosity about game mechanics kept Tris and me hustling for several hours.
THE âNO ITâS NOT DESYNCHâ TEST
This difference in the number of HPs seen by two players really had us going when we first discovered it! We ran the identical test with different monsters: SoulBurners and Advos primarily. Advos with their identical 583 HPs are the lab rats of D1.
With both Tris and me on the level in balanced damage set ups, I would injure a monster with Flamedart to within sub-10 hit points of life remaining. We would both call out the number of HPs we saw, and they always matched. Then I would leave and reenter the level.
When I returned, Tris continued to see the monsterâs HPs at the previously agreed number (sub-10 life remaining), whereas on my screen the monster was already regenerating its hit points.
Then we would wait, Stone Cursing all the while, until on my screen the monster HPs had fully regenerated back to max. Once full regeneration had occurred, I needed my standard number of bow shots to dispatch the monster (between 7 and 10 shots).
I shot with Flamedart and got the foeâs HPs down to sub-10, then exited. Tris stayed on the level while I left, returned and waited for the monster to regenerate its hit points fully on my screen. For Tris it still had sub-10 hit points, and, if TRIS shot to kill the monster, it only took him ONE SHOT!
Over and over again the monsters tested in this fashion had one set of HPS for me and another set for Tris.
Finally, we added a THIRD party to the equation. This was Attikaâs clvl 50 mage, Esau, armed with Dreamflange.
Now for those of you reading this report who may suspect that the presence of the third party program was causing the lack of regeneration, I want to clearly state that Attika was not using this third party software. Nor was WildViking when he was with us. Their results were consistent with what Tristan and I saw on our screens.
After I did all the fire damage required to lower the monster hit points to â10 life remaining on Tristanâs and my screens, Attika required only one or two DF hits to dispose of the foes. HOWEVER, if I did the fire-bow damage and Attika LEFT and returned to the level, the monster regenerated hit points for Attika, and would eventually reach full health. When Attika left, Tris & I stayed on the level and saw sub-10 life remaining. We could kill the monster in one shot, BUT upon Attika's return, it took him 12 or more DF swings to dispose of the same monster!
As an aside, I fire-bow shot a foe down to sub-10 hit points remaining, then left the level & returned. Next Tris ONE SHOT KILLED the foe and got the ENTIRE experience due to the kill, while I got NO experience, even though I did the lion's share of the work! Thereâs no justice!
5. The fire-bow does not do the buggy fire-damage to fire immune monsters, just to fire resistant or no resistance monsters. We tested this by firing a standard Hunters Bow and Flamedart at multiple Advocate opponents in Hell difficulty.
Several times the Hunters Bow killed the Advocate more quickly than Flamedart. Overall there was not a significant difference in the number of shots needed to kill an Advocate using a regular Hunters versus Flamedart.
Thus, while the fire-bow may "flag" the monster as being unable to regenerate hit points, there is NO elemental fire damage taking place from there on out, or so it would seem.
Flamedart was not the only fire bow used in testing. I also conducted identical tests using a short bow of fire purchased from Gris. The results were always the same. HP regeneration ceased and only the number of shots required to dispatch the foes differed.
SUMMARIZING:
Elemental fire bows are the only weapons that stop monster hit point regeneration. They will do this even for monsters that flee from battle to "regenerate" points (Hidden, Gargoyles and Scavengers were tested.)
Fire-elemental bows stop monster hit point regeneration in ALL monsters, including FIRE IMMUNE monsters, Diablo, and presumably all BOSSES though we are unable to fully verify this in Bosses. I suppose the one hit kill rule would prove this point, if it were possible to recreate the same boss over and over to measure the number of shots it took each player to kill the creature once fire-bow damage had been dealt. Hmmm ⦠Maybe the Butcher â¦
If two players are on the same level and one player damages a monster with a fire-bow and then leaves the level, upon his/her return the fire-damaged monster will immediately begin regenerating hit points, BUT ONLY IN RELATION TO THE PERSON WHO FIRE DAMAGED THE FOE, LEFT THE LEVEL AND RETURNED.
If other players are on the same level when the fire damage is done and remain on the level the entire time, the monster will not regenerate hit points in relation to the players who remain. The result will be that, upon his/her return to the level, the player who did the fire damage will require more shots/swings/casts to kill the foe than the players who remained on the level.
This information makes the fire bow a more formidable weapon than previously imagined, especially for Ironman or LoL players. So when next you see that measly Flamedart drop, don't think of it as a pitiful Unique received from a vengeful enemy. Knowing how to use it, the Flamedart (or any fire-bow) is quite a nasty weapon once you assess the strengths and weaknesses of fire-elemental bow damage.
And there you have it! My first ever real strategy post, and probably my last.
There has been speculation over the years about the effect of fire bow damage on monster HP regeneration. Practically all agree that fire bow damage is âbuggyâ and erratic, and many concur that one hit from a fire bow will stop monster HP regeneration entirely. In order to affirm these speculations, one of my gaming partners designed a series of tests based on elemental bows, most often fire-damage bows since they are "known" to stop monster hit point regeneration.
Before reporting the findings I would like to acknowledge the following people who either helped in the testing, contributed information, or suggested certain tests. My thanks to Attika who designed most of the tests, to Tristan who volunteered to work side by side with me in order to verify results, and to WildViking who generously loaned equipment and by whose skepticism and speculations the weapons testing process was dramatically improved and enriched.
For purposes of testing a reliable third party program was used that shows the decline of monster hit points during the process of the kill for all non-boss monsters and Diablo himself. (The HPs for bosses other than Diablo were not displayed with this program, and therefore could not be assessed individually.) The effect of this software is much like what you see if you play Hellfire:The Dark on Kali using an item âof Seeing.â On your screen at all times when you are facing a foe, its HPs are displayed and you can actually see the number of monster HPs âticking downâ as you kill the foe. Itâs like a counter.
Additionally, at certain points in the testing process Tristan and I fine tuned our characters' set ups so that their damage would match identically. When evaluating our results, please remember that Trisâ and my characterâs damage is always the same. I will refer to this as our âbalanced damage set ups.â
There were SEVERAL unusual facts that turned up in the course of the tests. They are summarized at the very end of this report, for those who do not wish to read through all the verbiage. Some of them may amaze you! I know they surprised us!
1. Fire bows do indeed stop monster hit point regeneration. Fire based spells do not. Fire melee weapons do not. Immolator does not. Magic based spells do not. Lightning bows do not. Lightning melee weapons do not. Lightning based spells do not. Sparking Mail does not. But fire bows do stop monster HP regeneration dead in its tracks with just one shot.
I conducted many tests on this, but the first one was the most memorable.
THE ACID TEST
Following Attikaâs instructions I armed Sabra (clvl 45, high A/C Damage Queen) with Flamedart and set off for Caves. There I found a lone Poison Spitter and shot it once with Flamedart. Its HPs dropped from 295 to 207 and stayed at 207, as I allowed it to follow me back to the stairs where my TP was located. I then stayed with the injured beast, Stone Cursing it all the while, and waited to see if HP regeneration would commence at some point. (Note: Stone Curse does not stop HP regeneration in monsters that have not sustained Fire-Bow damage.)
After many minutes and nearly all my pots had passed, I exited the level via my TP to buy some more pots. When I returned to the level, the Spitterâs HPs began to regenerate immediately and rapidly, shooting up to 215 in the time it took me to get off the first screenie.
I shot it once more (post-screenie) and its HPs dropped to 189. Stone Cursed it, swilled pots, let it chase me around for a bit. Minutes later, HPs still at 189.
I killed it, and rustled up a Mudman, isolated him and repeated the test. All results were consistent. But, since a lone Mudman canât hit Sabra when she is in w/s set up, I stuck her in a corner with her SS and CC, and let him bat away while I did a few things around the house, only checking in periodically.
After a thorough tidying up of the family room and folding some laundry, I found Sabra still unscathed in her corner with the Mudmanâs hit points the same as after the first shot from Flamedart.
No regeneration had occurred. That was enough for me. I was convinced that no HP regeneration was EVER going to occur after that long a time.
2. Fire bows stop monster hit point regeneration in FIRE IMMUNE monsters, along with all other monsters, bosses and Diablo included! Concerning bosses this is an educated guess, as the software does not display the hit point regeneration (or lack thereof) for bosses. However, since the flag to stop regeneration when hit by a fire bow works on all regular monsters, all fire resistant monsters, all fire IMMUNE monsters and Diablo himself, it seems reasonable that it works versus bosses as well.
FIRE DRILL
Tristan, using his arty mage, and Sabra were delighted by the prospect of Attikaâs test of fire-bow damage vs. fire immune foes. For our purposes, we settled on Hell difficulty SoulBurners. Who wouldnât want to torture one of those?
Having selected a prime, bare-breasted target, we found that one shot from Sabraâs Flamedart STOPPED HER REGENERATION COLD, while Trisâ high level Fireball left her unfazed. Other fire immune monsters responded with the same result.
3. Hidden of all types, including Illusion Weavers, when damaged take off running and disappear to "heal". However, after just one shot from a fire-bow, when Hiddens returned they still displayed the same damage that had been dealt them before they disappeared. No "healing" had occurred, although they left the scene of the battle and disappeared. The fire-bow damage overcame their ability to regenerate.
The same may be true of Gargoyles, when they land and sit down to speed regeneration. It seems probable that, having sustained fire-bow damage, they would not regenerate after sitting to heal, but once fire-bow damage is sustained by Gargoyles and HP regeneration stops, they NO LONGER SIT DOWN TO HEAL.
Perhaps one could construe that they âknowâ it would be futile, and that is, in itself, an interesting premise, since Hidden still fled and Scavs still ingested carrion. Could Gargoyles be the sharpest tacks in Diabloâs box?
4. When there are two players on the same level and one player damages a foe with a fire-bow and then leaves the level, the HPS seen by the player remaining on the level stay the same as when the last fire-bow shot was loosed. When the player who damaged the foe with the fire-bow returns to the level, the damaged monster will begin regenerating its hit points on the returning playerâs screen, but ONLY FOR the player who did the damage, then left and reentered the level. The damaged monsterâs HPs stayed the same for the player who remained on the level the entire time.
WildViking was with Tristan and me during the previous discovery and did he ever put us through our paces! His skepticism and Teutonic intransigence coupled with his high level knowledge of fire damage and his innate curiosity about game mechanics kept Tris and me hustling for several hours.
THE âNO ITâS NOT DESYNCHâ TEST
This difference in the number of HPs seen by two players really had us going when we first discovered it! We ran the identical test with different monsters: SoulBurners and Advos primarily. Advos with their identical 583 HPs are the lab rats of D1.
With both Tris and me on the level in balanced damage set ups, I would injure a monster with Flamedart to within sub-10 hit points of life remaining. We would both call out the number of HPs we saw, and they always matched. Then I would leave and reenter the level.
When I returned, Tris continued to see the monsterâs HPs at the previously agreed number (sub-10 life remaining), whereas on my screen the monster was already regenerating its hit points.
Then we would wait, Stone Cursing all the while, until on my screen the monster HPs had fully regenerated back to max. Once full regeneration had occurred, I needed my standard number of bow shots to dispatch the monster (between 7 and 10 shots).
I shot with Flamedart and got the foeâs HPs down to sub-10, then exited. Tris stayed on the level while I left, returned and waited for the monster to regenerate its hit points fully on my screen. For Tris it still had sub-10 hit points, and, if TRIS shot to kill the monster, it only took him ONE SHOT!
Over and over again the monsters tested in this fashion had one set of HPS for me and another set for Tris.
Finally, we added a THIRD party to the equation. This was Attikaâs clvl 50 mage, Esau, armed with Dreamflange.
Now for those of you reading this report who may suspect that the presence of the third party program was causing the lack of regeneration, I want to clearly state that Attika was not using this third party software. Nor was WildViking when he was with us. Their results were consistent with what Tristan and I saw on our screens.
After I did all the fire damage required to lower the monster hit points to â10 life remaining on Tristanâs and my screens, Attika required only one or two DF hits to dispose of the foes. HOWEVER, if I did the fire-bow damage and Attika LEFT and returned to the level, the monster regenerated hit points for Attika, and would eventually reach full health. When Attika left, Tris & I stayed on the level and saw sub-10 life remaining. We could kill the monster in one shot, BUT upon Attika's return, it took him 12 or more DF swings to dispose of the same monster!
As an aside, I fire-bow shot a foe down to sub-10 hit points remaining, then left the level & returned. Next Tris ONE SHOT KILLED the foe and got the ENTIRE experience due to the kill, while I got NO experience, even though I did the lion's share of the work! Thereâs no justice!
5. The fire-bow does not do the buggy fire-damage to fire immune monsters, just to fire resistant or no resistance monsters. We tested this by firing a standard Hunters Bow and Flamedart at multiple Advocate opponents in Hell difficulty.
Several times the Hunters Bow killed the Advocate more quickly than Flamedart. Overall there was not a significant difference in the number of shots needed to kill an Advocate using a regular Hunters versus Flamedart.
Thus, while the fire-bow may "flag" the monster as being unable to regenerate hit points, there is NO elemental fire damage taking place from there on out, or so it would seem.
Flamedart was not the only fire bow used in testing. I also conducted identical tests using a short bow of fire purchased from Gris. The results were always the same. HP regeneration ceased and only the number of shots required to dispatch the foes differed.
SUMMARIZING:
Elemental fire bows are the only weapons that stop monster hit point regeneration. They will do this even for monsters that flee from battle to "regenerate" points (Hidden, Gargoyles and Scavengers were tested.)
Fire-elemental bows stop monster hit point regeneration in ALL monsters, including FIRE IMMUNE monsters, Diablo, and presumably all BOSSES though we are unable to fully verify this in Bosses. I suppose the one hit kill rule would prove this point, if it were possible to recreate the same boss over and over to measure the number of shots it took each player to kill the creature once fire-bow damage had been dealt. Hmmm ⦠Maybe the Butcher â¦
If two players are on the same level and one player damages a monster with a fire-bow and then leaves the level, upon his/her return the fire-damaged monster will immediately begin regenerating hit points, BUT ONLY IN RELATION TO THE PERSON WHO FIRE DAMAGED THE FOE, LEFT THE LEVEL AND RETURNED.
If other players are on the same level when the fire damage is done and remain on the level the entire time, the monster will not regenerate hit points in relation to the players who remain. The result will be that, upon his/her return to the level, the player who did the fire damage will require more shots/swings/casts to kill the foe than the players who remained on the level.
This information makes the fire bow a more formidable weapon than previously imagined, especially for Ironman or LoL players. So when next you see that measly Flamedart drop, don't think of it as a pitiful Unique received from a vengeful enemy. Knowing how to use it, the Flamedart (or any fire-bow) is quite a nasty weapon once you assess the strengths and weaknesses of fire-elemental bow damage.
And there you have it! My first ever real strategy post, and probably my last.
![[Image: Sabra%20gold%20copy.jpg]](http://lh4.ggpht.com/_5eP1tAQLrYk/Sekf3ggYfTI/AAAAAAAAB14/ECIStOuO58I/Sabra%20gold%20copy.jpg)