03-14-2003, 11:30 PM
Hi,
First, I do not doubt you credentials. Nor do I doubt that immigrants are a pressure in your school system. Whether yours has the *most* severe problem is not important. That your problem is severe is.
So the next question is: Is it effective? Does it make a difference or would they muddle through on their own? The experience that I have suggests that it is effective here. I cannot speak to alternative delivery systems/structures/curriculum for ESL. All I can say is that here it works.
This is the crux of my question. Your experience "suggests that it is effective". And then you say that it does work. Considering the size of the immigrant population in your area, I'd guess ESL is a considerable fraction of the educational budget. It would seem that, to justify such an expense, more than a "suggestion" of effectiveness should be needed. But I have never seen a study, nor can I find one online, that demonstrates that ESL programs are better than doing nothing. Perhaps they are. Perhaps they are not (and the fact that other nations seem to get along without ISL or FSL or SSL seem to indicate that people tend to pick up the language of where they live without formal courses).
In an ideal situation where the available money for education can cover all imaginable expenses, perhaps the only justification required for a program is that it does no harm. But in the real world, where budgets are limited and often insufficient, I think a demonstration of a considerable positive cost - benefit analysis is not an unreasonable request.
But, I also don't want to see my children be the experimental subjects.
I can understand and sympathize. However, your children *are* the experimental subjects of the latest theories. The state of education has been in flux since, at least, the mid fifties. Curricula change, disciplinary techniques come and go, the balance between memorization and understanding of concepts keeps shifting, failure is banished through the front door and makes a reappearance as "opportunity". Some of these experiments worked, others (like "new math") were a disaster.
--Pete
First, I do not doubt you credentials. Nor do I doubt that immigrants are a pressure in your school system. Whether yours has the *most* severe problem is not important. That your problem is severe is.
So the next question is: Is it effective? Does it make a difference or would they muddle through on their own? The experience that I have suggests that it is effective here. I cannot speak to alternative delivery systems/structures/curriculum for ESL. All I can say is that here it works.
This is the crux of my question. Your experience "suggests that it is effective". And then you say that it does work. Considering the size of the immigrant population in your area, I'd guess ESL is a considerable fraction of the educational budget. It would seem that, to justify such an expense, more than a "suggestion" of effectiveness should be needed. But I have never seen a study, nor can I find one online, that demonstrates that ESL programs are better than doing nothing. Perhaps they are. Perhaps they are not (and the fact that other nations seem to get along without ISL or FSL or SSL seem to indicate that people tend to pick up the language of where they live without formal courses).
In an ideal situation where the available money for education can cover all imaginable expenses, perhaps the only justification required for a program is that it does no harm. But in the real world, where budgets are limited and often insufficient, I think a demonstration of a considerable positive cost - benefit analysis is not an unreasonable request.
But, I also don't want to see my children be the experimental subjects.
I can understand and sympathize. However, your children *are* the experimental subjects of the latest theories. The state of education has been in flux since, at least, the mid fifties. Curricula change, disciplinary techniques come and go, the balance between memorization and understanding of concepts keeps shifting, failure is banished through the front door and makes a reappearance as "opportunity". Some of these experiments worked, others (like "new math") were a disaster.
--Pete
How big was the aquarium in Noah's ark?