I recommend you Dragon´s Crown

[Jester]

On only a slightly more serious note. Some previous pages\posting ago you asked me (possibly hypothetically) what I would consider a fail for fanservice. At least if I read your intent right.

To me it's mostly the context. To give a concrete example, the lines of 'Disney Princess'.

(Insert nauseatingly saccharine Disney Princess image.)

1) This is aimed at young people. At an age where they might not yet fully developed the -full- awareness, context, or the subtleties of why some of those facial expressions and poses can be considered, provocative.

I personally, wouldn't do a double take if I saw anyone of age wearing a Playboy Bunny logo t-shirt. I would have serious concerns if I saw an elementary grade person doing the same. It's not necessarily just the graphic alone for me, but the context.

Maybe I'm over-reading this, but surely the problem is that presents a very stereotyped and restrictive image to young girls, rather than that some of the poses might be provocative? I don't think "don't be provocative" is a lesson I care to teach young girls. I don't want to send the message that male sexuality is something they provoke, and should be careful to avoid.

"Be a princess, dress all in pink and lavender, stand around looking pretty" on the other hand, seems to be a wretched lesson, because of what it says about girls, not because of what supposedly causes men to do.

2) Aside from something 'Stepford'-y about that gift bag graphic. I also don't like how there's something not true to the characters about it.

That's Disney Princess Mulan, at least one version of that char. As a graphic alone, without context, I don't have a problem with it.

However I've seen the movie, I know slightly about the original story it was based on, and I loved the theatrical poster of it.

It's definitely not about the idea that females can't look pretty. It's certainly not about the idea that females are not allowed to want to look pretty. It's something else here that makes me cringe. It's the character lobotomy to me. (...) With this kind of re-contextualizing however, there's something cringe inducing about it for my own sense and sensibilities.

I agree. What they have done with Mulan, and with Merida, and with all of their strong female characters, is awful. It really isn't appropriate for the context of their roles. They suddenly become pretty pink princesses, whose only emotion is a kind of placid, shiny happiness, and who do nothing except standing around being princesses.

Dragon's Crown struck me as exactly that problem. The women are supposed to be kicking ass. But they're portrayed mostly as just showing ass. There's nothing wrong with showing ass, so long as it makes sense for a particular character in a particular context. (And not all characters and contexts are interesting - see: Disney princesses.) But design should make the character match their role - or subvert it, but if you're going to do that, you have to be smart about it. "Supposedly ass-kicking character has sexy, feminine characteristics ramped up to 11" is a pretty banal subversion, and pandering to boot.

Well what does all that have to do with DCrown art?

Our 3d world context, retail space.
Here's the ESRB rating for the game.
http://www.esrb.org/ratings/synopsis.jsp...2950&Title=

To date, I haven't seen it's graphics pushed as merch in the same toy aisle as the Disney Princess. At least in my neck of the woods. Maybe in Japan they do have bento boxes for grade school kids featuring the Amazon. Dunno, I'll stick to N.America for now because that's where I live.

My objection is that it's sexist, not that it's corrupting the children. A well-raised 10-year-old should be able to process Dragon's Crown just fine. If they can't, they have more serious issues than badly-drawn boobies. I am far more concerned about uncritical, hypersexualized portrayals of women in games, and the effect that has on men and men's opinions about women and sex. That worries me more for 21 year old men than 10 year old boys.

Really exaggerated sure. I understand it can put off some people, I can grok that. Everything else in the DCrown themepark is just as exaggerated to my eyes. But for me, it does serve it's design purpose in that I can remember the chars basic general silhouette even from memory. Because they -are- so extremely exaggerated.

As I think I've said at least three times now, but might as well reiterate to wrap up: I have NO problem with exaggeration. I have a problem with sexism. There are a thousand ways that you could draw an "exaggerated sorceress." They chose to make her chest larger than her torso, to give her a spine-snapping boobs-and-butt look, and to have her breasts jiggling in the wind. They didn't show her as exaggeratedly powerful. Or cunning. Or competent. Or brilliant. Or resilient. Just exaggeratedly sexualized, in a very banal, fanservice way.

-Jester