Article discreditng the thesis that Mao "killed millions of people" in The Great Leap

[kandrathe]

Again, you mistakenly think you can... win. Also, while I am encouraged that you actually cited a source, you chose a bad one.

Primitive accumulation of capital
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This article's factual accuracy is disputed. (January 2009)
The neutrality of this article is disputed. (March 2014)


This article needs serious rewriting
Reading this article makes one have the feeling like some hardcore marxist gave his heart leave to an outburst of "anti - burgoise" emotions. It's full of inaccurate and tendentious historical views about the beginnings of capitalism. I don't have anything against mentioning Marx' opinion, but when did Marx get a required training for giving such full - scale historical interpretations? And when did wikipedia start to advance old 19th century communist revolutionary philosophy of history views?

1.) This article needs to give honest account of interpretations of both the one side that introduced the term "previous accumulation" (Adam Smith) as well as interpretation of Marx and marxists. In this state, article promotes only marxist (or should I say, views of amateur philosopher Harvey, aotually a trained geographer) views about history and "criminal" acts of burgoise against poor workers. It totally neglects other views.

2.) This is basically a philosophical interpretation of the history of economy, particularly, history of England and "enclosure for sheeps". Historians have researched this period and have written about so called "previous accumulation" and enclosures, it's causes and effects. Article should report views of contemporary historians about this period, and current state of research. For example: [1] [2]

In this state, article seriously violates neutral point of view. Philosopher12 (talk) 16:21, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Ph12, you may be unaware that the title is a Marxist subject and has little/no meaning outside of that except as a dog whistle for certain types. Given that and no more substantive complaint, delineation of a particular Marxist bias, e.g. Trotskyite, I will remove the tagging after a review as operation within the bounds of some body of knowledge is precisely what a (a good one anyway) encyclopedia is about. So first noting that "previous accumulation" is quite different from "original" or "primitive". Lycurgus (talk) 23:55, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Philosopher12 is right; the article has been written from a marxist, WP:INUNIVERSE perspective, leading readers to believe that this stuff is actually true, rather than reflecting what reliable, mainstream, independent sources say. This is a common problem among marxist articles on wikipedia. bobrayner (talk) 09:27, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

In fact BR, you evince the only problem I can see here. You are conflating fiction with real world events, currents. "In universe" applies to works of fiction not major real world political movements. For any actual real world phenomenon, body of knowledge/thought, an interior perspective is the right, usual, and common sense way of exposition appropriate to a reference work. Lycurgus (talk) 01:45, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

No. Our neutrality policy requires us to present the mainstream view. Presenting obsolete Marxist ideas as though they were fact obviously fails this policy. It is never right or usual to present fringe ideas from an inside view. bobrayner (talk) 22:44, 19 March 2015 (UTC)