Freedom of Speech (did I miss something?)

[kandrathe]

Allowing free speech for white nationalists and Nazi types does NOT lead to free speech for all, but as material reality has proven ever so many times, rather LESS free speech and MORE violence. I've said it time and again - white nationalists should NOT have a platform for their views, because the consequences of doing so lead to more violence for everyone else. The poor woman who lost her life in Charlottesville to some nazi terrorist is but one in countless events that prove this fact.

What if we changed the complexion of the antagonist...

"Allowing free speech for Communists does NOT lead to free speech for all, but as material reality has proven ever so many times, rather LESS free speech and MORE violence. I've said it time and again - communists should NOT have a platform for their views, because the consequences of doing so lead to more violence for everyone else. "

Joe McCarthy anyone? Violence as we witnessed in Charlotsville is bad, wherever the source. What are white nationalists? Is that a red neck trucker wearing a MAGA hat? Nationalism or patriotism is a political position... like America first. The danger is just as we see happening in media now... If you are not on the progressive, socialist side... you are a hate filled Nazi sympathizer, or worse. This is exactly what happened in Germany in the early 30's. Hundreds of brown shirts clashed with an equal gaggle of revolutionary communists. Year over year, the people eventually chose to give power to the side that promised everything and end to the violence. They did, for awhile, they killed the communists with the power of the government.

As stated in the article, you can make the most logical, articulate, and cohesive argument ever written for the concept of absolute free speech being one of the foundations to a fair and just society, but it STILL does not pan out in the real world.

I will put my trust in the rule of law, and careful deliberation of ideas. I don't know if you perused the powers of the KKK act, but if a hate group is systematically terrorizing any of your list of threatened minorities they have ready means to seek justice. How do you qualify graduations of "free speech"? You either have it, or you do not. If I'm free to express the correct thoughts, but not free to express the wrong thoughts, then we have no freedom of speech. Like in many parts of Europe... Sanctioning speech doesn't stop the movements, it just stops the ability to rationally discuss them in public. It is tyranny.

Just because the human race hasn't gone extinct because of said hateful views doesn't make them any less deplorable or any more excusable; or that they should not be challenged and censored. Many people have and still do die and suffer in a multitude of ways because of these views and rotten ideas that we say they should be allowed to express, regardless of how shitty they are. I'm sorry, you will never get me on board with this, cause again, free speech absolutism is an idealistic fantasy grounded in libertopia. Allowing free speech for nazis or white nationalists is politically an untenable position both morally and pragmatically.

For me, it's more like my position on the death penalty. If you allow it to be a power of your government, you risk finding yourself the victim of it if the wind blows a different way. I don't want government choosing what are the good ideas or bad ideas... this is why it is the very first right, in the bill of rights. Who do you want to choose to be the arbiter of truth? Do you want to be able to choose for yourself, or have government punish the wrong thinkers?

I don't know about you, but I'm fully capable of discerning good ideas from garbage. The solution to Nazi's spouting off, is more speech describing how they are FOS. As you say, we all know the dreadful results the last time they rose to power. If you trust in your fellow citizens to be capable of cogent rational decision making, then we are all fine. They will climb back into their caves, and slither back under the rocks. We just need to remind them why we had welcomed their stupid pompousity last time they dusted off their hoods, and just ... tell the truth about them. Under the glare of truth, bad ideas die. But, violence only begets more violence until we have a much bigger problem. Ask the Sunni's...

If the majority is on your side and thinks we need daddy dictator to tell us what to think, I fear we are doomed.