Hellfire Patch v1.02.A5: Classic HF with less bugs and more polish!

[Belix]

I am enthused with all the discussion here (regardless of whether it is about Diablo in general or my patch/mod hybrid thing I can never decide what exactly to call).

If anyone would care to offer some feedback: Which bug fixes do you most appreciate so far that any of these projects brought to the community (HF:Fixed, Marsh's Mod, this)? And from this project specifically, which are your favorite and least favorite non-change fixes I've made?

This gives me an idea which bugs I might focus on, and what new features/changes I'm considering I should prioritize. Or avoid if they're similar to things that haven't proven popular.

Although I consider most of the changes that aren't strictly fixes by nature to be reasonably aligned with the spirit of the game, I am the first person to admit that this is interpretive. To that end, I hope to establish in a future version a way to easily differentiate these two different aspects of the project, so that users will have the option of choosing a pure fix package with no extra fluff, while retaining the option to use any of the extended features or adjustments they might want separately.

That said, it is time to reply to some of things have been said or asked since my last post. Since I've been given a lot to respond to, I'll be replying to everything in the order it was posted, and will seperate posts with a row of === signs. Skim through for these if you're looking for the reply to your posts faster.


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The max beneficial AC in PvM is 285 for a level 50 char, which is pretty easy to get as it is if you find a nice Awesome Full Plate of whatever.

I agree that in vanilla Diablo a Warrior can obtain high or maximum effective AC with reasonable ease already. But... this thread is about Hellfire, so I have to discuss this from that perspective.

As a matter of technical accuracy, the minimum effective Armor Class in Hellfire against non-boss enemies is actually 301 AC. This is due to Flesh Things, which (in Hell difficulty) are Level 58 with 270% chance to hit. While I forget the exact figure, the maximum useful AC here against bosses like Diablo (with his chance to hit bug fixed) and Na-krul was somewhere around 410 AC.

More importantly, most of Hellfire's new classes are encouraged to play without shields. That's a significant hit to the AC of the Hellfire classes (though less so for the Monk), and the loss of an item with a decent Hit Point or Resistance bonus as well.

And most importantly, Barbarians and Bards with no shield cannot block at all, making them entirely dependent on their Armor Class to avoid hits - the same AC which is naturally lower without said shield. This makes their melee careers quite painful at high difficulties; stun-lock and item durability (plus repair expenses) become serious concerns.

I'm not saying these characters can't achieve maximum useful AC, but even with a Level 50 character reaching 300+ Armor Class with no shield is not easy. I'm curious if a Barbarian could even break 300 AC at Level 50 at all without wearing Gotterdamerung and +Dex jewels instead of +All.

And that brings me to another point. I don't think discussing characters in terms of Level 50 makes sense here. Back when you could always find someone to play Hell/Hell with on Battle.net, playing characters over and over until eventually hitting Level 50 wasn't uncommon. But Hellfire never had Battle.net support, most of us probably don't have that kind of free time any more, and Marsh's Mod changed some things with the item table that would invalidate some or all of the equipment of any existing character, so I suspect anyone using a Level 50 character here would be an anomaly.

So, here's a more comprehensive list of useful Armor Class maximums against any normal monster found in Hell difficulty:

Level 30: 341 AC
Level 35: 331 AC
Level 40: 321 AC
Level 45: 311 AC
Level 50: 301 AC

With all of these factors considered, I don't think being able to find a magic plate with up to 225 AC (38 more than the previous 187 AC max) is unreasonable, especially since a 255 AC plate already exists in Hellfire. I have to admit, I almost forgot about the Armor of Gloom myself.

But even considering all of that, I still agree with you that it is unnecessary. If I were to actually implement higher qlvl affix drops, I would consider altering it to exclude items that couldn't legitimately be generated; so you could find the types of Holy Plates, Emerald Bows and Whale Helms etc. that Wirt could of sold before, but no Godly Plates of the Whale or other newcomers. Maybe. I'm not sure I'd ever even implement that at all, so the specifics of how it would work may be wasted thought.

Plus, not sure what the implications would be from a PvP perspective.

None. As you said, vanilla Diablo 1 PvP is fine. I've never heard of any serious PvP activity in Hellfire, and I suspect that's probably because it is broken for some reason. If not because of the various bugs it came with (such as Warriors blocking first and checking AC second), then probably the weird items (255 AC Plate, +60 Dex rings).

Hydra Rings of Wizardry

Just wanted to note that the Hydra's and Wyrm's affixes only appear on Staves, and reiterate my earlier comment about only intending to enable allowed affixes to be generated on items, not change which items affixes are allowed on.

My apologies. Framing your message in the context of Hellfire/this mod seems largely dismissive. You strike me as a long time Diablo player that is intimately familiar with the game; I respect and admire that. I share your love for the original game in its unaltered form and suspect, were I ever to make a project like this for it, I doubt I'd find sufficient reason to modify it outside of bug fixes. Hellfire was a mess though (and perhaps arguably still is somewhat, despite the efforts of community members over the years).


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Thanks for the advice with the diablo clicker. the "administrator trick" did it for me.

You're very welcome. I haven't found much use for the clicker yet, personally, since many years of playing the game has made repeated clicks such a habit that I often continue clicking rapidly even with the cilcker on. It is a difficult thing to unlearn.

the bosses like king leoric or the butcher ("normal" unique bosses too) don't give any exp at all in single player.

Are sure about that? I know the original game doesn't work that way, and I don't think anything here alters that. I can look into it, but I'm guessing you may have killed them when your character was too high a level to gain any experience for it.

when an item drops directly were a doorway is it is impossible to pick it up.

I'm also puzzled by this. Are you referring to bugs the game originally had (it's always been difficult to grab items that fall behind doors), or did you experience this with this mod? Just want to make sure. If you can describe where the door was (Catacombs, Caves, Leoric's Tomb) etc. that information may be helpful. I did change it so blocked doors don't highlight any more on mouse over, so it may be possible that items in the door square are getting disabled somehow too, but I haven't witnessed this.

could you make it possible to put potions in the belt by shift-left clicking them (just like in diablo 2)?

That may be possible. This behavior already exists in the game when you first pick up a potion, so if I can find it, I can probably use or copy it to achieve this. It's a good suggestion and I'll put it on the 'things to attempt' list.

Furthermore it would be nice if oils, when picked up, would not be inserted in a free belt space automatically.

I'm not sure if I can do anything about that, but I'll consider investigating it.

Could you maybe change the drops of na-krul to random (besides the apocalypse book)? the guaranteed drop of a great sword and a staff isn't quite satisfying...

Agreed, and I'd like to change it as well. Unfortunately I don't know how to both keep him dropping Apocalypse Books (as he is the only source for them in Hellfire, I believe) while also dropping random items. Things like this would be so much simpler if the game's source code had ever been released. I don't know if I'll ever be able to address this, though.

i just found a bow of swiftness. maybe it is my eyes...but i can't see any difference in the attack speed compared to a normal bow...

I'm pretty sure this is working in the current version. I'll double-check next time I play it.

Unless you're a Rogue, the difference is fairly imperceptible. These bows reduce the number of frames in the attack animation by 1 frame. For the Rogue, this changes her attack time from 7 frames to 6 frames, which is roughly a 17% increase in attack speed. For a Warriors, Bards and Barbarians, the change is 11 frames to 10 frames, or a 10% speed bonus - almost half the benefit the Rogue gains. Setting aside the fact that Sorcerers have no real business wielding bows, they shift from 16 frames to 15 frames - roughly a 7% increase.

While subtle, this increase in attack speed is significant, particularly to high level Rogues whose damage mostly comes from the character's level and attributes, and can utilize Swiftness bows to put out more damage over time than even the mightiest war bows.

I found the spell "berserk" when i cast it with my rogue...nothing happens...

The Berserk spell that Hellfire introduced needs to be targeted on non-boss monsters. I think if they're Magic Immune, it may not work, or has a very low chance of working. When it takes effect, the monster will begin to glow. While Berserked, its combat abilities are slightly boosted and it will fight with other monsters.

the monsters on dlvl 1 on nightmare already gave me ZERO EXP...is that normal?? very strange.

Yeah, that's nromal. You probably found the Dungeon very easy on Nightmare with your Level 27 character. As a general rule, the way the game is designed is that you'll get little or no experience fighting levels that are really easy. If you're not doing battle somewhere you get a bit of a workout, you're probably not getting much experience there either.

Basically, monsters have a level just like your hero, and the deeper you go, the higher monster levels are. As you level up higher, you gain less experience from monsters that are lower level, until eventually they are worth nothing any more.


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You really have no one to answer to.

True, but my ultimate goal here is to offer an improved version of Hellfire that remains true to its original spirit and doesn't feel like somebody else's version of the game, so I'm trying to keep changes minimalistic. Also because it'd be easier at some point to just make my own game than, say, produce a mod as extensive as The Hell.

More seriously, just keep doing what you're doing. Especially since you're doing this at a pro bono/gratis rate.

Even thank yous are just icing on the cake. I've been playing Diablo (vanilla and HF) for many years, and expect I will be for many more. I just figured it'd be nice to spend some time making Hellfire better now so I can enjoy it more moving forward. All the thanks and suggestions I've gotten here have more than repaid the extra effort I put into sharing the work freely.

How feasible is it to change around the characters attack speed rate in HF modding? Could it be done by hex editing alone?

I haven't looked at this in awhile, but if I recall correctly there is an internal table in the game somewhere that lists the number of frames in each character's various attack animations. In theory, setting that lower than the actual number of frames in the animation would speed it up. So I think it is just 1 simple value somewhere to edit as you hoped.

I'm not clear why you're asking, though. Can I provide you with more information? Were you hoping to get the exact addresses of some locations you could play with, or some code you could try add to this mod file and adjust attack speeds with?

I didn't know about any quirk with Bards and maces. That might be interesting to investigate. I'm pretty sure Jarulf would have spotted that in the attack speeds, but the information in his table doesn't say the Bard should be that fast.

Thanks Belix, and again, kudos for the work you put in this mod\patch.

You're (all) very welcome. My only regret is not having enough time to do more with it faster. If I could, I'd even prod some of you guys to try and play some multiplayer coop. Technically speaking, enough bugs have been fixed I'd even be willing to Ironman with it now, though some of the changes this mod has made (shared XP in particular), and differences between Diablo and Hellfire would make that a very different experience.


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I recall that she could not stun-lock advocates dual-wielding swords.

Speed/Haste weapons bring her just 1 frame short of that. Fortunately, her prowess with magic make it pretty easy for her to finish off anything she's softened up with melee that decides to run or teleport away. A little Fireball, Stone Curse or Nova work wonders.

I suspect the sweep attack has been nerfed in this mod but in vanilla h/f it was quite an advantage.

It definitely more than made up for the absence of a shield back then. Now I actually consider using them sometimes on either class. But then, perhaps being able to reliably slay 3 Blood Knights on Hell difficulty in an MP game with a single swing was just a little overpowered anyway.

I know Lemming made succubi demons in his mod but in vanilla H/F they were animals. Do not know about this mod.

I think only Hell Spawn were Animals in HF, not all Succubi (or just the type named Succubus). Marsh brought over quite a few changes from HF:Fixed, so if Lemming fixed it, it might be fixed here also. I'm not certain. It has taken me awhile to isolate all of the changes Marsh didn't document. I have them all pinned down now, but about a third of them remain unidentified... I'd better ask Cain for help.


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Unfortunately I'm not much of a coder\ code reader so I'm still unsure just how feasible it would be to even try making the changes I'm thinking about. Just as a personal HF tweak, mostly for my own use and experiment.

As I said, not clear exactly what you have in mind. Give me specifics, and if it isn't too crazy, I might volunteer it for you right here.

And a patch like this from Belix just makes HF that much more worthwhile IMO.

Aww, thanks!



EDIT: Woops, missed 2 new posts since I walked off to have dinner before finishing this reply. But I don't think I have anything else to add right now. Carry on!
EDIT #2: Fixed incorrect AC value provided for the Armor of Gloom.