(01-14-2014, 06:09 PM)Hammerskjold Wrote: Here's Mrs. Jessica Rabbit. This is not a real life woman. No real life woman with her exact 2d proportions can exist in our 3d space. That's because Jessica Rabbit is a 2d construct.
She predates the DCrown Sorceress. She is one of the main characters in the film 'Who Framed Roger Rabbit'. The film features many scenes of other western cartoon chars spanning different eras and style as well. Not just her and her cleavage, despite the numerous images of the char and youtube clips found online.
Jessica Rabbit is exactly right. She is a character created to be the ultimate sex object, taken up to 11 with the power of cartoon animation. And she is precisely fit for purpose - in creating a noir/comedy/cartoon movie, she is exactly the right mix of commentary, parody, and epitomization. The trophy wife. The damsel in distress. The femme fatale, but without much fatale.
The sorceress in Dragon's Crown is *even more* hypersexualized than Jessica Rabbit. And she's supposed to be starring in an action game, which one might think would call for a different kind of character? But no.
It's not that I object to the existence of Jessica Rabbit. It's that I object to action heroes being depicted as Jessica Rabbit (or worse), just because that's apparently what "sexy" means, in depicting women.
Quote:meme, yeah I'm familiar. And yes, I likes that meme. A lot of superhero western comics does have a problem on handling sexy vs sexist.
Sure does!
But this is Japanese, so... sexism is not a thing? I don't get it. Japan has been deeply integrated into "western" culture for seventy years now, and in close contact for the century before that. The entire genre of Japanese comics and animation grew up in an era deeply influenced by, and in dialogue with, the English-speaking world. Feminism is not a new thing to the Japanese.
Quote: N. America for the most part, still treats it as a very limited genre. 'Childish 'pitcher books or cartoons' for people who haven't graduated to reading a real full book without pictures'. (edited to fix a mistake in previous sentence.)
Are we living in a pre-Alan Moore world? Has Neil Gaiman gone down the memory hole? Comics and animation left the "pitcher books and cartoons" world over two decades ago.
Quote:This for example, is a clip from an anime series called 'Kill La Kill'. It has stripperific power costumes for the female protagonist and female antagonist. Like, to a super ridicilous level, to the point of ...this has got to be satirical.
However in this clip shown, this is the male supporting char, and put in various Hawkeye meme poses or as close as possible equivalent. Oh yeah, and his nipples glows.
If you've got a world where everyone is ridiculously sexualized, then I haven't got any objection to that. He does look pretty awesome, in a hilarious sort of way.
Quote:The barriers between 2d and 3d may exist for a good reason. If anyone were to directly transfer Rob Liefeld's characters into our 3d world without any translation.
You will have a lot of amputated characters screaming, 'MY HANDS AND FEET!!!111 WHERE ARE THEY?! Why Rob why...why did you cut my hands and feet off with the panel just because you have trouble drawing humanoid limbs...why....oh dear god I can't breathe...to much muscles on..my chest...guhrgle...
One can draw two conclusions from that. One is that 2d and 3d are fundamentally different, and that's the source of our problems. The other is that Rob Liefeld is a terrible artist who draws things that are both absurd and deeply sexist (both in his depictions of men and women) and that the problem lies with his character design, and not the idea of moving from 2d to 3d.*
I'm going with the second conclusion, myself.
-Jester
*I get that there are purely technical challenges to this, and that there are shortcuts and techniques that one takes in 2d design that wouldn't fly with a 3rd dimension. (Escher pushes this to the maximum.) But that is emphatically not what this is - the character is obviously non-functional even in 2d.
(01-15-2014, 12:28 AM)Hammerskjold Wrote: Man...the attitude here is sure turning into 'slut shaming'.
Amazing what one 2d drawing can bring out in some people.
I wonder if the people that are so outraged and frothing ever spent some time interacting with women. Would they ever say the same thing to a 3d woman's face I wonder?
Are you talking to me with that comment? Or are "some people" just FIT?
-Jester