US Supreme Court Legalizes Gay Marriage

[LemmingofGlory]

And I think opponents of gay civil marriage identify so strongly as "Christian" that they consider opposing gay anything a fundamental characteristic of that identity.

This applies to most peoples' viewpoints in life, as far as I've seen. Humans have a fundamental need to identify with groups, as we are tribal animals by instinct. It is a survival mechanism. We allow our opinions to be formed by the groups we identify with. Perhaps we joined those groups based on geography, perhaps we joined those groups based on upbringing, or perhaps we joined those groups because they held a belief we shared. Further beliefs come from that identity.

I agree! I'm drawing a distinction between the levels of reasoning to the conclusion. "I oppose gay marriage because I am a Christian" basically sounds like "This an axiom of Christianity", which (as many other Christians would attest) it is not. But even if it was, there should be another step of reasoning to determine whether the opposition must be broad or simply within their own denomination.

However, when a belief is challenged, it does take a strong mind to evaluate that challenge objectively rather than instinctually react to the challenge and shut it down. Our very biology screams at us to reject anything that could threaten our group identity, because without the group, we're stranded, alone from the tribe.

I'm keenly aware. I was raised by a mentally ill parent who suffered from (what I know now to have been) paranoid delusions. I had no outside social interactions except through gaming. I had to tear apart my entire worldview and build it up again when I finally, well, escaped. It was very uncomfortable. I felt out of place pretty much constantly, because I had no local/regional culture. I mostly consider my culture to be Internet.

So, yeah, I know this pretty deeply from first hand accounts. It's why I think it's so important to look square in the eye anything sacred or taboo and ask, "Should this be viewed this way? Do I have a good reason?" Deep convictions do best when well supported. (And it's fine to have unsupported beliefs, but know that you can't expect other people to also take stock in them.)

I learned by watching Pete how to call bullshit on garbage ideas. It actually really helped me get out from under the diseased worldview I was raised in. I'd thank him if he was still around. Dunno how he'd take that though.

Some challenges are pretty easy to evaluate and determine if there's an objective reason to reject them. Gay marriage is one of those, which makes me feel sorry for those who still can't overcome that challenge to their belief.

It is and it isn't. The idea of sexual orientation is non-intuitive for many people who've just never thought about it. So, they might get stuck on the gay part before getting to the marriage part. It's that lack of exposure that limits understanding. As an extreme example of limited point of view, I didn't understand sexual attraction until I was 19 because I was brought up to think it was some kind of intellectual decision. For example, I was told I'd be attracted to people who liked mowing the grass because I hated doing it and that would make us compatible. Similarly, desiring a family was what made my mom attracted to men (she explained).

Environment matters a whole lot. Even something (like sexual attraction) that is basically intuitive can be molded by an insular environment in order to fit its confines.

-Lem