Article discreditng the thesis that Mao "killed millions of people" in The Great Leap
#50
(12-29-2016, 01:38 PM)EspyLacopa Wrote:
(12-29-2016, 01:12 AM)FireIceTalon Wrote: I absolutely deplore the fact that I have to work or face starvation, homelessness and state enforced brutality if I dont.
Hmmmm. This strikes me as odd. If this is so, and the idea behind Communism is that Working isn't tied to the basic utilities of Life (food, shelter, water, internet). . .How do you make sure enough people are working to keep society running? And if you DO have something in place. . .aren't the people being forced to work or face starvation and homelessness?

Hi. My statement was made entirely in the context of bourgeois capitalist society.

Generally, most people want to contribute to society to make it better. Work under communism would have an extremely different nature than it presently does. Right now, work is done in the direction of capital accumulation and profit, and not for the improvement of society. In communism, it is done for the latter.

Capitalism creates alot of boring, uninspiring and crappy useless jobs that most people don't really want to do. Take for instance, telemarketing. I don't know about you, but almost every person I've met that has been one, has said its a shit job, including my fiance who said it was the absolute worst job she ever had. This is the type of job that would not even exist under communism, because there would be no longer be a need to call people and swindle them out of money to buy some crap they probably don't need, or even want (that, and you wouldn't be able to anyways since there is no monetary system in communism).

The shitty jobs that DO remain and we can't entirely get rid of, can be solved in a numbers of ways. Automation is one, so that some of these jobs would require minimal human labor to do, and another is simply greatly reduced hours for these sorts of jobs. The necessary work day in general though, would be greatly reduced under communism regardless of what work is being done (though people would also be welcome to work as much as they like if they particularly enjoyed what is was they were doing).

Janitors for instance, have a miserable job under capitalism, toiling 8, 9, or even 10+ hours or more per day cleaning toilets, mopping and doing other types of drudgery. On top of that, their job, despite being a very important one, is viewed and treated as 'lesser than' (or even shamed entirely) compared to more lucrative professions, and they are paid terrible wages - despite it being one of the most important, but yet unfun and difficult jobs to do. In communism, this would either be automated, or people could rotate so that no one has to do this for any extended period of time - and it would be decided democratically by the very people who do it. Whats the motivation you ask? Simple. We wouldn't want shit and trash flooding our streets, just as we don't now. Janitors are paid horribly, yet the work still gets done. But by automating or greatly reducing the work time for these types jobs, not only do they become less dreadful and horrible to do (you would be much more willing to do it, if for instance, you knew you only had to do it for say an hour per day, or every other day, or whatever, instead of 8-10 hours every SINGLE day as you would now), but it also frees up time to put peoples skills and talents to better use, as well as free up more personal time for them.

If anything, it is capitalism that demotivates people to work, because most of the jobs are so useless, boring and crummy, and because they are forced to do it, the same routine of getting up every day to go produce value for someone else because you have to pay bills and living paycheck to paycheck - all violently enforced through a state apparatus, because their survival depends on it. Our work under capitalism, isn't our own, it is someone elses, and we do it mostly for a paycheck (usually, a puny one at that - far less than the value we actually produce) and little else. Sure, there are a few people who genuinely enjoy their jobs, but as a whole, you would have to search far and wide to find someone who truly can say, with a straight face, that they love what they do, day in and day out, and couldn't imagine doing anything else. For the vast majority of us, this isn't the case. Most of the jobs are routine, repetative, uninteresting and soul crushing.

The point is, if people genuinely enjoy what they do, they will do it. If they don't like it, getting them to do it has to be done by force - which is exactly what occurs under capitalism. Jobs that cannot be made fun or interesting but cannot be eliminated, will either be automated or the work time for them will simply be greatly reduced so that they are not unbearable as they are now. One of the points of communism is to make it so that the work we do is also enjoyable, for everyone.

People would not face homelessness or starvation, because everyones basic needs are provided for in communism. Everything is free.

The so-called Soviet model of "communism" wasn't communism at all - it wasn't even socialism, let alone full communism. What is was, was a form of state capitalism. The Soviet Union, especially during the Cold War, devoted almost all its resources into nuclear technology and military to be globally competitive with the United States and its allies, and not to the betterment of its society which is at least partially why Ashock experienced what he did. It was capitalism dressed in a red suit, and nothing more.
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"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)
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RE: Article discreditng the thesis that Mao "killed millions of people" in T... - by FireIceTalon - 12-29-2016, 08:05 PM

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