Article discreditng the thesis that Mao "killed millions of people" in The Great Leap
#60
Quote:Sorry, I and all the non-communists in the US dispute your claims.

*shrugs* You and your non-communist buddies can dispute till you are blue in the face, and you will still be wrong. Just as holocaust continue to deny the holocaust, but are still wrong everytime they do.

Indeed, I'm not the authority on the subject, but I would say Marx and Engels, who made this same *correct* observation some 150 years ago through scientific research and inquiry on capitalisms structure and workings, WERE authorites on the subject - and the same observation can be and still is, *correctly* made today by those who compare the hypothesis to real-world conditions and logically come to the same conclusion.

Quote:the origin of big corporations to see they start as somebody with a novel idea.

Nope. Your capitalist fairytale is incorrect here as well.

(12-31-2016, 03:28 PM)kandrathe Wrote: You absurdly, without any supporting proof claim followed by a boatload of red herrings

I like how you conveniently glossed over this, lol:

Quote:Capital itself was and is built by the working class in the first place - who built/builds all the factories, tools, technology and instruments of production in general? The working class. Who dug up and cultivated all the natural resources required to do this? The working class. The capitalist has the luxury to take such a "risk" because they have unjustly profited in relation to the means of production - hardly a risk at all. Nor is it a risk in a broader sense, since they have already ended up with far more wealth than they will ever need to survive, and they did so at the expense of workers. So it begs the question, what gives capitalists the right to own that which they did not produce? The answer is, they have no legitimate claim to it. "Capital is dead labor, which, vampire-like, lives only by sucking living labor, and lives the more, the more labor it sucks" - Marx

Aside from that, workers take far more and greater risks than capitalists do - a construction worker for instance takes a FAR bigger risk walking across I-beams to build a sky scraper than the capitalist who borrowed the money to build it. Hell, we take more risks than any capitalist simply by being forced to enter into a 'at will' contract where we can lose our livlihood at the drop of a hat - for any reason or no reason at all. Is that not a risk that workers must face every single day? Indeed it is, and we don't get any kind of permenant reward for it like capitalists do, which leads me to...

It seems like the whole "risk" argument is based on some strange belief that "temporary risk entitles permenant compensation". If the start-up origin is bad, it doesn't say much too good about the system itself now, does it?

Lastly, the outrageous notion that capitalists somehow deserve to expropriate surplus value from workers because they took a "risk" is red-herring idealism. It is done regardless because they own the means of production - the result would be the same whether they took a risk or not. "Risk" is completely irrelevant to production for profit.

So once again, I hereby state that capitalists are free-loaders and welfare kings/queens.

Look. You can try to justify capitalist theft, violence, power and privilege all you like - its still remains an untenable position.

Everything in the above quoted text still stands - you have absolutely no refutation to it cause you know damn well its correct. Especially the first point justifying "risk" even though capital was made by workers - trying to defend that would be impossible to do without doing so under nihilistic or sociopathic pretenses.

I guess by capitalist logic, if we show up to the corporate headquarters one day, armed to the teeth, shatter the bosses kneecaps with a baseball bat and tell them this place doesn't belong to them anymore, that they will be ok with it. Since according to capitalist logic, "we are inherently greedy and that its ok to be so". In such a position, I wonder quickly that logic would change to something more rational. I predict almost instantly.

Im' done here. You lost - BIG time.
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"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)
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RE: Article discreditng the thesis that Mao "killed millions of people" in T... - by FireIceTalon - 12-31-2016, 04:48 PM

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