Communism and the Left

[FireIceTalon]

SMH. So you really, actually want to go here? I cannot tell if you are really this dense, or if you are just trolling for the sake of trolling.

but his devoted one sighted nature is baffling to me

This is cute coming from you - one of the most simple-minded, shallow, uncritical, dingbats whose posts I've had the displeasure of reading. The communist view is baffling to you because you haven't the slightest understanding of what either communism is, or what capitalism is either for that matter. But, lets start with Nazism and communism since that is the video you posted.

One can't even begin to compare Nazism (or fascism in general) and communism. Not only just for the mere fact they are ideological opposites with entirely different worldviews, but that one is a form of bourgeois state dictatorship centered around the proposition and foundation of white supremacy, and the other - depending on the context it's used in - refers to a specific economic mode of production, characterized by a very particular set of social relationships; or a revolutionary political movement of the working class. They have nothing in common, anymore than social democracy and feudalism do.

It is also important to note that this video presents a rather misleading way in saying there has only been one Nazi regime. This is true in the sense that Germany in the 1930's is the only nation to have a ruling political party that called themselves the Nazis. However, there has been many FASCIST regimes throughout capitalism's history - many of them quasi-US sponsored regimes put in place to protect and expand the interests of American capital. Nazism is merely one form of fascism.

Your little video is trash and outlandishly nonsensical on nearly any and every level, you should be embarrassed even posting it. It should be obvious why communism isn't hated as much as Nazism in many parts of the world - one only needs to read The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf back to back to see that they are worlds apart both in their goals and ideologically. But moreover, the video isn't entirely correct in its main premise that Nazism always gets more hate than communism. There are countries where political parties based around Nazism are sympathized or honored but sympathy for communism is criminalized (Ukraine is one example of this). All this video accomplishes is confirming the age old (but still true) "the ruling ideas of any era are always the ideas of its ruling class". From the article:

The letter read: “Not only would it be a crime to question the legitimacy of an organisation [the UPA] that slaughtered tens of thousands of Poles in one of the most heinous acts of ethnic cleansing in the history of Ukraine, but also it would exempt from criticism the OUN, one of the most extreme political groups in western Ukraine between the wars, and one which collaborated with Nazi Germany at the outset of the Soviet invasion in 1941. It also took part in anti-Jewish pogroms in Ukraine.”

It warned that the “wholesale condemnation of the entire Soviet period as one of occupation of Ukraine will have unjust and incongruous consequences,” noting that even someone who speaks positively of the perestroika market reforms under Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, for instance, could be condemned.

Dunja Mijatović, the representative for the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe on freedom of the media, said the “broadly and vaguely defined language” in the anti-communist law “could easily lead to suppression of political, provocative and critical speech, especially in the media”. The US Holocaust Memorial Museum also condemned the independence-fighter legislation.

Even if the laws are not invoked to send souvenir sellers and historians to prison, they will promote ultranationalism and “anti-communist hysteria”, said Denis Pilaš, an activist with the Ukrainian group Left Opposition, who co-wrote a scathing analysis of the law in the journal Commons.

A communist supporter attending a rally in Kiev on International Workers' Day in 2012.
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A communist supporter attending a rally in Kiev on International Workers’ Day in 2012. Photograph: Gleb Garanich/Reuters
“The main danger of these laws is the movement of the political discourse to the right and the violence of the far right against leftwing activists,” he told the Guardian. “It’s a further step toward the legitimisation of these things – conservatism and violence against leftists – which have been growing for the past three to four years.”

In addition, the anti-communist legislation could entail millions of dollars in expenses for renaming the huge number of cities, streets and other places connected with communist figures or the Soviet Union at a time when Ukraine is in economic crisis. Already local politicians have discussed a new names for the cities of Dnipropetrovsk and Kirovohrad, which were renamed in honour of communist revolutionaries Grigory Petrovsky and Sergey Kirov during Soviet times.

Here's a cold, hard fact that will be difficult for you to swallow: communism has killed (or murdered) exactly ZERO people - modern communism has never existed (yet). Capitalism - the system we DO live in and have so for the past 300 odd years - kills 25,000+ people PER DAY, every day, through starvation alone - this isn't counting the wars, genocide, or other ways that capitalism kills people. Nor is murder the only way in which capitalism oppresses people. But for the sake of argument, I will play your game for a moment:

EVEN IF that 110 million figure could be attributed to communism (which it cannot be as it has no relation or even any imperative that lends itself to the internal logic of communism). And EVEN IF that number was correct and the first statement was true (this is a highly exaggerated number by even most bourgeois sources), the deaths and misery from capitalism FAR, FAR exceed that number. As said before, 25,000 people starve to death PER DAY under capitalism - NOT including all the other ways the system kills people.

Even if we play your meritless game, and say "communism" killed 100+ million people (the most inflated figure), from say 1917-1991, capitalism kills more than that EVERY 5 YEARS. It's hard to put an exact total on capitalisms death toll, because it kills in so many ways and getting exact numbers is always tricky (especially when dealing with extremely large figures over a long period of time), but the number is very likely in the BILLIONS. If we take the entire totality of capitalism's history into account, it is almost certainly in that range. The genocide of new world aboriginals ALONE eclipses even the most wildly inflated claims of those who allegedly died under "communist" regimes, and it follows directly from the ideological underpinnings of the feudal/mercantile (and later, capitalist) regimes this occurred under.

It might be time for a "Black Book of Capitalism" to be published, but again, getting a total would be difficult for reasons stated above. Not to mention, the number would probably be most horrifying to look at even if it were attainable.

The ardent supporters of communism all seem to talk fervently with biased disposition and a gutteral tongue whose naivety on slavery and capilalistm is astounding.

Our disposition on the capitalist system is not unfounded, and in fact comes from a very rigorous, scientific investigation of the systems inherent, fundamental workings; from its earliest developments to this hour of late-stage capitalism. Biased? No. The Marxist view of capitalism is an objective one - based upon what capitalism actually is - and not one based upon what they think it is or what it ought to be as libertarians and social democrats (mistakenly) do. It is only biased to you because it presents inconvenient truths about the system, truths which you do not want to face because you are an apologist for the given social order. The evidence against it is overwhelming. Capitalism has been put on trial, and is found guilty - of EVERY charge.

Of course slavery is not a part of capitalism's core ideologies, but only so in the 'idealist' sense of the word - If capitalists were openly pro-slavery, that would be a politically untenable position that would make it outright impossible for them to justify the continued existence of their shit system. That is why 'fair exchange' is promoted as the central ideology rather than slavery. But capitalism is indeed slavery - just a different form of it than the class dynamics and arrangements seen in slave society (Ancient Rome), or feudalism. It just relies far more on mystification and obfuscation to conceal its real-world workings, compared to prior systems of oppression. But these workings can be and have been exposed with a material analysis - that is why the system goes to such great lengths to silence or attempt to discredit anything that might be a threat to not only the systems legitimacy, but even its very existence. Thus, it is no wonder that bourgeois historians and economists, as well as other sectors of capitalisms ideological state apparatus, will try to demonize Marxism and communism any chance they get - the capitalist system literally fights for its life every day and therefore requires propaganda and mystification to protect itself. It exists through propaganda, deceit, and state violence - not on its own merit as communism would.

Ever heard of wage slavery? Workers produce all wealth in society yet own almost nothing, because the capitalists hog it all because they own the means to production. In order to survive, workers must sell their labor power to a capitalist in exchange for a wage that is far less than the value he or she produces, or face homelessness and starvation - all indisputable facts. THAT is a form of slavery, coercion, and exploitation; it just happens to be legal (but see the quote in my sig on that) - regardless if you acknowledge it or not. Maybe you should get the fuck off youtube, and go read the first 3-4 chapters in Marx's "Capital Vol.1". You would probably learn more in the couple hours or so it took you to read it than you have learned in your entire life to date.

It's truly amusing when the educated put them in their place in the comments section such as this gem in the dirt (and quoted load of horseshit)

Except, you pro-cappies aren't educated - at least not in the realms of economics, politics, or history. And you damn sure don't put anyone "in their place" - on the contrary you only reinforce the confirmation for us commies that our view is indeed the correct one and that a Dialectical way of thinking and analyzing is the surest road to historical truth. What is amusing is the typical cappie arguments being the same re-hashed tripe that has been debunked a million times over by now by various leftist groups. We scoff at the likes of you, and at your sub-rudimentary understanding of politics, economics, and hilarious oversimplification of history - and no less of your OWN system, that you outlandishly profess has no alternatives, in spite of all evidence to the contrary! Go on over to Revleft and try to put everyone there in their place, and see how that works out for you.

But perhaps the most notable (and most disgusting) part of your post though was you agreeing with this:

Nazism dramaticallt improved Germany culturally, economic and socially

No. This kind of re-writing of history as to why people are so politically confused and backwards these days, and is particularly dangerous in that some go as far to flirt with the idea that Nazism is a left-wing ideology. It isn't. Nazi Germany was an utter shithole to live in by any measure - unless you were a capitalist, or a Nazi of course. If you were a communist or any sort of leftist for that matter, gypsi, a Jew, a gay, a woman, or a worker it was a fucking hell hole if not an outright death sentence. I would pick 1917 Russia to live in over Nazi fucking Germany - 24/7/365. The Bolsheviks were 1000 x more progressive than the Nazi's in every single measurable aspect - be it rights for homosexuals, women, Jews, or workers. Not that is saying much, because there was utterly nothing progressive about the Nazi Party. Then you have the audacity to say that communists and Nazis are the same. GTFOH. But as a white supremacist, its no surprise you think Germany in the 1930's-40's was a fucking paradise. I would expect nothing less. Perhaps the one good thing about you Fascie scumbags is that you wear your hate on your sleeve, which thankfully, makes you and your ilk easy to identify. You are on the wrong side of history. FOAD.

/close thread

P.S. As far as rocket technology goes, if you want to use that as political propaganda - you fail here too. Soviet Union was the first nation to put a man in space :-)