100 Years since October 1917 -- No Celebration.
#7
Well, since you want to play this game, here we go.

(11-03-2017, 01:18 AM)Alram Wrote: Between 85 and 100 million of their own people were murdered by Communist governments.
~Stéphane Courtois; Kramer, Mark. The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression. Harvard University Press. pp. ix–xx.

RolleyesRolleyes Yep, because we all know the BBOC is a credible source that seeks to objectively understand material conditions and provide context to complex historical circumstances; and is not a propaganda tool predicated upon emotion and sparking emotions, right? I think not.

Numbers which are quite inflated even by most bourgeois standards. Bourgeois historians pull so many numbers out of their ass on "how many people communism has supposedly killed" that none of them are to be taken seriously. One day its 30 million, the next its 100 million. I suppose next it will be 200 million. Or do capitalist historians and think tanks have even more lofty numbers to make up as they go? Because hey, making up numbers for propaganda is not only easy, but it also seems fun. Historical accuracy be damned.

Even if we assumed the numbers in your little black bible of disinformation were accurate (which is problematic in itself), and even IF we assumed all of them could directly be attributed to communism (which is even more problematic, for obvious reasons), they still pale in comparison to the numbers killed by capitalism, which kills more people than that EVERY five (5!) years that pass, through starvation alone. This doesn't include wars. This doesn't include the murder of ethnic minorities. This doesn't include lack of access to decent medical care. Nor does it include all the other evils, besides death, that are intrinsic to a for-profit system, such as the objectification of working people, homelessness and under/unemployment, depression and anxiety (which are common contributors and causes of stress, heart attacks and strokes), and too much more to list here.

I mean goddamn, if we indicted capitalism for ALL of its crimes, both its larger historical atrocities and its daily crimes, the charges would be so extensive that we would all die of old age before the fucking trial could be completed!

As for the rest, I fixed it for you:

Quote:Capitalist governments engage in the most censorship and unprecedented brutality in the world, eg. America from its inception to the present day, Saudi Arabia, Israel's apartheid and oppression of Palestinians, Russia under centuries of czarist/Romanov rulership, Japanese colonization of Korea in first half 20th century, Spain under Franco, Chile under Pinochet, Cuba under Batista, Germany under Hitler, Italy under Mussolini, etc. The list is fucking endless.

Capitalism is opposed to personal freedoms, equality, human rights and rights for workers, providing every person in the world with a decent standard of living conditions, it actively persecutes, slanders, shuns, and silences people who dare stand up against the injustices it produces eg. religious and ethnic persecution, immigration bans and deportation (i.e. Muslims and Mexican immigrants in the US), discrimination, oppression, and persecution of homosexuals, disabled people, poor & homeless people, women, racial minorities, and leftists; persecution of those who are against the system of private property (which is theft, btw) and exploitation of labor. And last but not least, it creates false narratives, spreads disinformation, and wallows in mythology BECAUSE IT CANNOT, LEGITIMATELY, exist as a system on its OWN merit. This can be summed up by the Marx quote in my sig.

The reality of Capitalism is that rich people get richer and more than nine times out of ten, the poor stay poor, and in some cases, get even poorer...i.e. the last 30+ years in America, its been the same old story - rent and cost of living in general keeps going up, meanwhile wages have, at best, stayed the same as they were under Reagan and the crack era. Myths like the American dream are just that: a complete abstract narrative made out of thin air to keep people from understanding the reality of their circumstances. Productivity is higher than ever but wages are the same, so much for that whole "if you work hard you'll get ahead" narrative. Admittedly, it has worked brilliantly, since most Americans view themselves as 'temporarily embarassed millionaires' rather than as working class, even though they are, and overwhelmingly so, the latter. But I think people are starting to see through the sham that it is, and I say its about fucking time.

Capitalism devastates the environment, i.e every capitalist state in existence, regardless of which form of government they choose - be it liberalism in the USA, a theocracy in Iran, military dictatorship in Somolia, social democracy in western Europe countries, or social democracy with bayonets in China - the result is the same. More than 200k acres of rain forest are destroyed EVERY DAY for purposes of profit - and that is but one example. We are in the middle of a dangerous, and likely irreversible, course of global warming thanks to capitalism. Yes, capitalism IS the cause of global warming - without question.

Capitalism is a flawed concept and a failure not only as a political-economic system, but also a failure to the human race - it is a morally and economically bankrupt system that puts profit above human need, is super wasteful (overproduction) and destructive towards the environment, misallocates resources, funnels people and their talents as cogs in a profit-producing machine into mostly boring, meaningless, unnecessary and repetitive jobs that are often dehumanizing and soul crushing, and economically it relies on planned obsolescence - since after all, exchange value, rather than use value, is conducive to the profit system. Products and technology under communism will be far superior to those produced under capitalism.

Ill just leave you with this, Alram: to be a communist, is to be someone who has faced the music. In all probability, you will not face the music ever, on your own accord; then again, it isn't my duty to get you to do so, nor should it be. Communists should be more productive by focusing on discussing, advocating and fighting for social change with those who use reason and rationality to guide their way through the world, rather than those who use emotion, buzzwords and propaganda. Be as it may, as the saying goes, the piper must be paid (no pun intended), and a day of reckoning WILL come, and then we will all be FORCED to face the music one way or the other. Exactly when, and what comes of that, remains to be seen, but that day, nevertheless, is inevitable at some point. Or in more explicit terms: If you think the present social order can continue, as is, totally unabated without radical social change occurring at some point - all I can say to you is, you are absolutely living in a dream world.

As I've said before, when it all goes down, I know what side of the barracks you'll be on, and which side I will be on. Whatever happens, fellow proletarians make for much better company than capitalist scum and cops :-)
https://www.youtube.com/user/FireIceTalon


"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)
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RE: 100 Years since October 1917 -- No Celebration. - by FireIceTalon - 11-03-2017, 02:22 AM

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