Torchlight II Live!

[Bolty]

Torchlight II is going live today at 1:00 PM US Eastern time! Reviews (Examiner: "Just buy it already") are starting to pour in from various outlets. Here's some additional tidbits:

• Two days ago, Runic Entertainment released the full soundtrack to the game, available on their website as a free (as in beer) download.
  
• Yesterday, Reddit hosted an Ask Me Anything interview with Max and Erich Schaefer (of Diablo 1 fame) amongst other members of the Torchlight II development team. There's a lot of juicy information in there.
  
• Kotaku has a pretty decent (although biased) breakdown list of what makes Diablo III and Torchlight II different. They sum it up like so: "If you liked Diablo III, you will almost surely like Torchlight II. Both games feel similar at their core, both have the same randomly generated replayability, and both games are satisfying in the same compulsive, clicky way. Seriously—this doesn't have to be some winner-take-all deathmatch. Both games are fun, and the two can co-exist. That said, if you didn't like Diablo III but have liked past Diablo games, Torchlight is different enough from Blizzard's newest game that it just may be your thing."
  

You can purchase Torchlight II on Steam for $20.

[Bolty]

While I won't have time to play this once Mists of Pandaria comes out, if anyone else is picking this up today, I might be on it tonight to jam. How do people meet up in the game?

[LochnarITB]

While I won't have time to play this once Mists of Pandaria comes out, if anyone else is picking this up today, I might be on it tonight to jam. How do people meet up in the game?

One would have to be able to even get to the site to get the game. They must be getting slammed really hard. I've paid for it but can't get back to the site to actually download it. I went through the Torchlight 2 site rather than Steam so maybe the Steam servers are holding up if people do want to grab it.

[Hammerskjold]

New patch is out, (either it's a coincidence or Runic has a sense of humour with the release date of April 1st). GUTS editor, Mod manager, some new tile sets, some new items and some new pets.

Seriously, this is good stuff. I haven't had a chance to explore all of it yet, but as long as it doesn't have that old D2 streak of 'nerf this nerf that balance balance balance, fun should not get in the way of balance bla bla bla'. It's good stuff.

To say I got my money's worth and then some is an understatement. I do hope Runic continues to make offline capable SP games, and continue to practice this 'old skool' approach to business. (No locked DLC, no insane DRM, no 'fee to pay' subscription model, making 'Fun' their number one goal in a game.)

As long as they do, they've earned my business.

[LochnarITB]

Thanks for the pointer. I've been spending my time (typed wasting first but that sounds bad for the game rather than my situation) on PoE.

I do hope Runic continues to make offline capable SP games,

Seconded! I am really enjoying the play style of PoE and I've even taken to the passive skill tree, but the barter/crafting system and handling of chaos damage are big turn offs for me. I might have gone back to D3 or gotten wrapped up in TL2 but for them leaving idle games connected. As long as they don't down the servers for maintenance or patching, I can leave a game sit and everything will be as I left it. I've even gone a couple days and was able to come back to the way I left it. Blizzard needs to take a lesson from both of them for D3.

[Hammerskjold]

Blizzard needs to take a lesson from both of them for D3.

Well I was actually surprised when I heard this is happening.

http://tech2.in.com/news/playstation-3/p...use/844892

While I think the removal of the more contentious 'features' is great, I do think that it's still a shame that bliz didn't think of doing this for the PC version, the first time around.

Would be great if bliz would work those changes into the PC version, but personally I'm not holding my breath on that one.

[Mavfin]

Blizzard needs to take a lesson from both of them for D3.

Well I was actually surprised when I heard this is happening.

http://tech2.in.com/news/playstation-3/p...use/844892

While I think the removal of the more contentious 'features' is great, I do think that it's still a shame that bliz didn't think of doing this for the PC version, the first time around.

Would be great if bliz would work those changes into the PC version, but personally I'm not holding my breath on that one.

I can see why some wouldn't care for always-online, if you didn't have a great internet connection. Of course, it's harder to just download a pirated version for a console, too. I have a 50 ping all the time, so always-online doesn't bother me. I bought the game knowing it would be so. I have had zero lag deaths. YMMV. If you know your internet is bad or unstable, you probably shouldn't have bought the game, and reserved your ire for your ISP, not Blizzard, who never hid what they were doing.

Of course, I figure anyone who bought D3 and was surprised by always-online, or knew it was there, but knew they'd hate it...and still bought the game probably should have thought about that a bit more. It's one thing if it's a late-added surprise, quite another if it's been talked about for more than a year before release.

As far as the auction houses, I don't see removing a feature from the game when it's *completely optional.* Nothing and no one forces you to use either AH, same as trading in D2. I never traded a thing in D2 and had fun with it for years. If people buy up the latest and greatest suit of gear from the AH for their character, and then bitch that they don't get any drops...that's on them, imo. I've not bought a thing on the RMAH, nor will I. Doesn't impact my play one bit. Items on there that I don't have don't bother me. People complain that they run out of things to do...yet they buy up things to speed up the pace of play?

[Hammerskjold]

I can see why some wouldn't care for always-online, if you didn't have a great internet connection. Of course, it's harder to just download a pirated version for a console, too.

Unless consoles are going back to proprietary cartridge format, and we somehow roll back the power of PCs to the 1980's, this horse is already long gone. Yes it's harder, but not impossible, even for consoles nowadays.

I have a 50 ping all the time, so always-online doesn't bother me. I bought the game knowing it would be so. I have had zero lag deaths. YMMV.

Yes. Other people's mileage may vary. Some folks really need to keep that in mind, and not act like -their- setup is everyone elses. Or that's the way it should be.

You know, like this guy.
http://4playernetwork.com/blog/2013/04/a...h-article/

If you know your internet is bad or unstable, you probably shouldn't have bought the game,

I've remembered when a friend of mine worked at a videogame store, and told me some folks buying WoW when it first came out, not realizing that it was a MMOG requiring innernets connection to play. Some kept it, some returned it.

It's so tempting to call these people 'morons' who should read the fine print. But it'd also be wrong, especially from a business viewpoint. These people bought the game because they saw 2 words, 'Warcraft', and 'Blizzard'. There are companies that would kill for that kind of brand recognition and near rabid (shut up and take my money!11) loyalty.

and reserved your ire for your ISP, not Blizzard, who never hid what they were doing.

....We'll just agree to disagree on reserving ire for the ISPs. And doubly so for giving bliz a free pass on not 'hiding what they're doing'. This is not a commendable, cookie worthy act to me.

It's the tone (or tone deafness) and arrogance of that pisses off a lot of people, acting like it's already a given that people somehow just have to have it, because who are you to not like anything we serve up.

It's -NOT- the 'we never hid what we're going to do, LOLZ Y U MAD THO?'

As far as the auction houses, I don't see removing a feature from the game when it's *completely optional.* Nothing and no one forces you to use either AH, same as trading in D2.

We're not talking about the AH. We're really talking about the -RMAH-.
That's what pisses off some people, and no 'It's completely optional' doesn't quite fly in this case, and that's not what causing some people to be angry about it.

I've not bought a thing on the RMAH, nor will I. Doesn't impact my play one bit. Items on there that I don't have don't bother me. People complain that they run out of things to do...yet they buy up things to speed up the pace of play?

I don't represent a gajillion people. This is my viewpoint. But I found after talking with some people, I'm not alone on this.

You want to know why there are people who are not happy with the RMAH? It has nothing to do with what you listed.

It's the fact that bliz brought in real money into the game. 'Lolol, get with the times, farmville has micro transactions, other MMOGs have micro transactions, other games have pay for DLC, it's optional so shut up and enjoy it.'

Oh well it's not an MMOG see, a 'true' MMOG requires a subscription, it needs to have a persistent world bla bla bla. I think that kind of defense is as solid as a single ply toilet paper.

D3 on PC, at the time of this writing, looks like a free to play MMOG. It doesn't call itself so, but it sure behaves like one. If it didn't have the 'Diablo' name on the box, we wouldn't even be splitting hairs on this. It'd be a lot more honest if bliz just called it 'World of Diablo PC: Express Version'.

D3 on consoles, with some features present\not present on the PC version are what some folks would've liked to buy and play on their PC.
What is wrong with that wish exactly?

'It's optional', or 'I have great innernets connection, YMMV', won't sway or convince others who don't share your view. (Edited addition: Even if I'm on a warp speed connection, rock steady stable, with unlimited bandwidth cap, and paying just pennies on the dollar for it. For some things I -still- want offline, I paid the amount of Cash Money you listed on the box, now go the FUUUH AWAY mode. Strange I know, I must be a luddite. )

Though you are right on the larger scheme of things. It -is- optional. We're talking about a video game. Not a mandatory tax. People are free to choose something else and vote with their dollar.

[Mavfin]

People are free to choose something else and vote with their dollar.

And that's what I'm saying people should have done all along.

(This isn't personally aimed at you, Hammerskjold, so please don't be personally offended at it.)

What pisses me off aren't the people who didn't buy the game because it was always-online. They acted properly, I think. Don't like always-online, don't open your wallet. Done. (If I'm not mistaken, you took this path? If so, kudos to you. As you say, YMMV. I have my opinion, you have yours.) Buy Torchlight II. It has offline play, and is as close as you can get to D3 w/o being it, although it still falls short in some ways, too. I bought it and don't regret it. I played it through Act I, and haven't gone back yet, but, it was worth $20, and I'll finish it sometime when I get bored of D3 and the other stuff I'm playing.

No, the ones that piss me off are the people who knew damned good and well that it was always online, bought the game, and then had a full-on hissy fit, signed petitions, posted that making an always-online game should have a law against it, etc. Too late, you already voted with your wallet the wrong way. This isn't an MMO where you pay a sub. You done paid your money and made your vote (as far as Blizzard is concerned) for always-online games.

Now, if you're somewhere in the middle, bought the game knowing it was always online, and then decided you don't like it...fine. Say so, and be done with it.

Just please don't act like Blizzard ripped you off or concealed anything about always online. Stand up and say "I made a choice I regret." Fine. Happens to all of us. I caved in and bought GW2. Ugh. That's a few hours of my life and a few bucks I'll never get back. But I don't post and say Arenanet ripped me off like some (again, not you personally, Hammerskjold) love to say about Blizzard and D3.

As far as RMAH, that's merely my subjective opinion, same subjectivity as yours, no offense meant at all if you think differently. But, as with always-online, I wish people wouldn't try to claim they got ripped off somehow, when they knew it was coming, too.

Where in talking about the game did people start equating "I don't like always online/RMAH" with "Blizzard stole my money with <feature we knew about LONG before launch!>" That's my whole pet peeve in the conversation.

And I'm not trying to convince anyone to like or hate D3. I'm presenting my opinions. I stopped trying to convince people of anything years ago. Blizzard once said only about 10% of D2(X) players ever made it to Hell. If that's true, then 10 months after launch, 3 million unique users each month (25% of 12 million sales) isn't really a 'failure' at all, as some love to parrot. Are there issues? Sure, there are. Did D2 have issues its first year? Yes. Did they fix them over time, and make D2 what it ended up to be? Yes. It could happen again. Or it might not. But, none of us here know how that will turn out, or have *facts* on what will happen. Only opinions.

[Hammerskjold]

No, the ones that piss me off are the people who knew damned good and well that it was always online, bought the game, and then had a full-on hissy fit, signed petitions, posted that making an always-online game should have a law against it, etc. Too late, you already voted with your wallet the wrong way. This isn't an MMO where you pay a sub. You done paid your money and made your vote (as far as Blizzard is concerned) for always-online games.

Exactumundo to the power of 11. I could not agree more.

I understand how and why some folks are upset, I really do. I have a soft spot for Old Bliz\Condor that made D1, Starcraft1, and Warcraft 2.

What a hell of a trifecta, IMO those 3 games cemented their cred as a powerhouse developer.

But at the end of the day, it's a company. And if they don't owe anyone a thing, then I don't owe them a thing either.

Like and agree with how a company make and run their games, support them with your dollars. If you don't, shut that wallet.

At the end of the day, that's the language most companies understand best.

Blizzard once said only about 10% of D2(X) players ever made it to Hell.

Just going anecdotally I can somewhat believe that. My brother in-law finished Nightmare mode, tried out Hell mode, decided he got as much enjoyment he could out of the game, then sold his copy to his co-worker. (That's not a failure in my books, since he bought both games during first week release so bliz got their share anyway.)

Out of my circle of friends, I've probably played D2\D2X the most, long after everyone else has 'moved on'.

That's not boasting, that's me saying I know I'm in the minority in modern gamers playing pattern.

But, none of us here know how that will turn out, or have *facts* on what will happen. Only opinions.

Well, looking over the facts I do have at the moment, my opinion is it doesn't look like bliz will change their stance on the PC version at this time. I'll ignore the barely disguised goldfarming site that says otherwise for now.

Just going by a Kotaku link,
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2013/03/the-con...-best-one/

So I asked the designers: now that fans can look at the PS3 and see that yes, Diablo III can be an offline game, will we ever see an offline mode added to the PC version of the game?

“It’s one of those difficult decisions we had to make,” said Mosqueira. “Right now there’s no plans. Some of the reasoning behind it is, the PC and console ecosystems are very different.”

Blizzard and Sony both did some research and found that many PS3s are never connected to the Internet, he said. “So we figured the best way to offer that Diablo experience was to let players play offline.”

I think that's somewhat disingenuous with the 'ecosystems are very different' bit. I understand it's their job on the line, and they were being diplomatic about it.

But I'm not exactly buying the reasons they offered so far on why offline is ok for console, but not on PC (dangling clause: 'at this time') because of 'ecosystem difference'. It's dodging the question. It's artful dodging, I give it 9.9\10 for near flawless delivery, but it's still dodging.

Not that it matters much in the long run, if I were to buy D3 for PS3 it would be a used copy anyway. And a used or heavily discounted PS3 system since everyone wants a PS4 instead.
Should sony or bliz decide 'used games' is just as bad\worse than piracy, well there goes another of my 60$ saved I guess.

[Mavfin]

Well, looking over the facts I do have at the moment, my opinion is it doesn't look like bliz will change their stance on the PC version at this time.

Oh, I agree with you completely. All you have to do is look at SC2's second installment. The 'guest mode' (offline) disappeared with Heart of the Swarm.

What they did add in SC2, and are adding in D3, is the ability to see other players on your local LAN. I imagine that will allow a quasi-LAN mode that depends on the server less.

As far as pirating, I haven't looked. Has anyone on the pirate side actually been able to replicate the full D3 experience in a local server imitation? If they haven't, then that's another data point Blizzard will use in favor of keeping always-online for the PC version. If the pirates can't sufficiently duplicate it, then Blizzard will write that down as a victory, and, well...12 million sales. (I'm not interested in running such a thing myself, and I wouldn't post any links, either.)

Edit: Everything I can find says that while they have made a server you can run locally, that you can log into and play D3 on...it's not very good, and is *not* the full D3 experience like playing online; i.e. they couldn't duplicate all of it. If so, then that means Blizzard will continue down the road more, not less. So, if you want offline D3, Playstation is your road. Are there any promises about porting expansions to PS3/4 yet?

[Hammerskjold]

Edit: Everything I can find says that while they have made a server you can run locally, that you can log into and play D3 on...it's not very good, and is *not* the full D3 experience like playing online; i.e. they couldn't duplicate all of it.

Best as I understand it, it's not like the latest Simcity situation, technically speaking at least. Only from what I've read at least, a player managed to mod the game successfully to show Simcity can run offline mode just fine. So EA\Maxis is not being 100% truthful when they said the game absolutely needed their servers to function.*

http://steamcommunity.com/app/24780/disc...487753859/

*EA not being honest with customers?! Shocking!

Again, as best as I understand it at least, D3 on the PC was built from the ground up to be tethered. Or not.

If that sounds like bafflegab, I'm just repeating what's been said officially.

http://www.gamefront.com/blizzcon-2011-b...llow-mods/

However, we have these other goals that supersede modding; we want to provide a safe and secure experience for players to play in and trade items in, and in order to do that, we had to make the game online play only

So trading items maybe optional for you and many others, including myself. But it's clear that bliz themselves thought different. At least in 2011. Fast forward 2 years later:

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/03/28/diablo...hurt-game/

Then again, and excuse my bluntness on the matter. This could've been avoided by concentrating on just making the damn game function as a video game. And not tacking on a wannabe e-commerce software collabo integration with Facebook and Paypal.

Again, just my opinion. Maybe it's just old fashioned.

/swigs a bottle of Bartle and Jaymes
/eat Pepperidge Farms cookies
/mutters about damn kids on lawn

If so, then that means Blizzard will continue down the road more, not less.

Bliz is absolutely free to do whatever they want based on however they interpret the data. They can claim that it's working as intended, everything worked brilliantly and according to plan.

It's absolutely within their right. Just as it's absolutely within my or anyone elses rights to disagree, and counterclaim that if a company requires me to be Always Online, then I require their servers\support (nothing to do with my ISP) on -their- end of the cable to be Always Online too.

Can't or won't do it? Everything they demand from me is reasonable but anything -I- ask is unreasonable? Then they're not going to see one cent from me. That's not a bliz exclusive, that goes for any company vying for my cash money.

If you know what you're buying into and are fine with it, that's absolutely fine too. One of my friends does not like the online tether of D3, but he treats it as an Free to Play MMOG, which he considers par for the course and he's fine with it.

And that's fine. It's fine. We're all fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjN9yK4lhxU

So, if you want offline D3, Playstation is your road. Are there any promises about porting expansions to PS3/4 yet?

Nothing absolutely concrete from what I've seen, though if we're talking turkey here. If they are porting over expansions, it wouldn't be a big surprise towards them doing a PSN Store download purchase. D2X was a separate purchase from D2, so I don't see them doing anything different with that.