Replacing the Rig - Advice Needed

[NiteFox]

I think it's time to upgrade my computer, affectionately dubbed "Whisper" because at the time I built it the thing ran quietly as a cloud compared to my old rig. The rest of my family are dropping a lot of cash on new cars, I'm thinking of spending less than a grand on a new gaming PC, and probably retiring Whisper into a bedroom Linux box, which was what I did with my old rig before the motherboard died.

Still got the wireless network card and keyboard/mouse from that.

Anyway, last time I built a PC I followed PC Gamer's (UK) suggested rig from about... I dunno, 2009, 2010? Maybe earlier. I'm actually pleased to say that their advice was pretty good back then, since the only time I've ever had to crack the case open to replace anything was to switch out a broken PSU that was responsible for a pretty bad burning smell throughout the house. The suggested PSU was a 700W one, I switched it for a 750W which was a little louder to the point where the name "Whisper" became decidedly ironic. Otherwise, what I bought then has held together pretty well with only really modern games (Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite) actually running sluggishly. But she is showing her age, I'd like to run Dark Souls at 60FPS (or thereabouts) while recording, and just maybe get the games I do play nowadays a lot prettier.

So back to the PC Gamer rig. The current suggested machine is here, but I'm making a few changes to it because, frankly, there are either parts I don't need or the fact that the PSU suggested is atrocious.

In that case, I'm going with this PSU instead; it's actually the same one I've got installed on my current machine, and it seems like you're paying stupid prices for 850W up. A 650W is inadequate; the 450W they suggest in the magazine is pathetic. I'm also not going with the keyboard, mouse, soundcard, and headset since I've got my own superior models (Logitech G510, Razer Naga, and Logitech G35 rendering soundcards obsolete). I may get a nice, shiny new monitor if what I order comes to significantly less than £1,000. I'm also going for a different DVD-RW; a LG one that's less than the Samsung.

Otherwise, I can't see any glaring issues with the build, which is probably where you come in.

One big issue I'm seeking advice for is the hard drive situation. Back when I was building my potato, SSDs were new and expensive and tiny. Now they're old and inexpensive and still tiny; what the website doesn't state is that in the magazine list they're running a 128GB SSD backed up with a 1TB HDD.

Except... While I might go for a SSD as a main OS install, I'm a bit leery about a 1TB HDD. I remember that it used to be commonly thought that 1TB drives have a high and inevitable failure rate, but I'm not sure if this is still the case now. When it comes to retiring this PC, I'll probably remove the largest of the SATA HDD (512GB) and install that as extra space while keeping the 128GB one in to at least render the box usable.

But I'd still like to slot in a nice shiny new drive. I've got a 2TB external drive that holds my Steam install (1.14TB and growing!) plus a few other things. This is part of the reason why I take such a performance hit whenever I'm recording, since the videos are dumped onto this drive.

Assuming sensible cost, what would be a decent hard drive arrangement: Windows and essential programs on a 128GB SSD, everything else on a 512GB HDD and a 1TB HDD as additional space, or shouldn't I gamble on a TB drive and maybe just buy a few more 512GB drives? For what it's worth, I do tend to partition up large drives to maintain a little sanity.

Also, I'm sticking with Windows 7 for now. I may be waiting for Windows 9, I'm unlikely to be going with a Linux install for my main machine since I have had absolutely nothing but problems with hardware incompatibility to the point where installing Ubuntu on this machine has rendered my headset unusable in Windows until I remove the Linux install.

And, as always, is there anything I'm being thick about? If so, let me know before I drop some serious cash on a new machine.

[kandrathe]

Assuming sensible cost, what would be a decent hard drive arrangement: Windows and essential programs on a 128GB SSD, everything else on a 512GB HDD and a 1TB HDD as additional space, or shouldn't I gamble on a TB drive and maybe just buy a few more 512GB drives? For what it's worth, I do tend to partition up large drives to maintain a little sanity.

I have 128ssd as boot and OS drive, for frequently accessed files, and 2x2TB drives. I backup my irreplaceable files onto the 2nd HD (and some things like photos are also in the cloud). Although... For the price ($60/year /PC) some online unlimited cloud backup services are attractive rather than risk it all being here (fire, flood, theft, etc.)/

[NiteFox]

Well, I doubt I'll go for a cloud storage option since, ultimately, there's not a lot on my drives that is worth losing.

For the drives, I'm going for this SanDisk SSD and this WD SATA, assuming of course TB+ drives are reliable these days.

Costing up all the parts, minus inevitable shipping charges and price changes (Some things are on sale right now), brings a whole new rig for about £723.73. Enough left over for a shiny new monitor.

Now if only I could remember how big my current one is so that I could actually upgrade it...

[kandrathe]

... assuming of course TB+ drives are reliable these days.

Mine are Hitachi and I've had them without issues for 16 months. I usually opt for something like Seagate Baracuda's, but I had this rig built for me. Average MTBF's seem to be going up on TB+ devices. The most expensive cost for me in drive failure is the lost time for re-installation and configuration.

[Hammerskjold]

In that case, I'm going with this PSU instead; it's actually the same one I've got installed on my current machine, and it seems like you're paying stupid prices for 850W up. A 650W is inadequate; the 450W they suggest in the magazine is pathetic.

Are you running a single or multiple graphics card setup?

How much is an 80+ Gold rated PSU in your area? While my own bias is go Platinum, All day, errr' Day. 80+ Gold is IMO is a sweet spot between reliability and $value if you're extra careful with the budget. My bias is based on nearly all the components being connected to the PSU, so it's ok spending a bit extra from the budget to get something reliable, if nothing else a PSU with a good warranty.

The RAM choice is fine IMO, how many are you planning to get?

Personally I favour ASUS mobo because they have a good track record with me so far, but the occasional lemons can be found in any brands, knock on wood.

For the drives, I'm going for this SanDisk SSD and this WD SATA, assuming of course TB+ drives are reliable these days.

AFAIK some of the TB+ drives problems involved too many platters, it was new at the time and had teething problems, and some folks using WD Green as their OS\main drive. (Green is fine for storage, not so much for OS\main.)

If you want to be 99.9% safe and reliable, getting a 'one version previous' of the latest, with a known track record is
another way. And can save money as well. (I had a choice of getting a newly released SSD model, or getting one that was out a little bit longer and had more user track record. I personally went with the only slightly older one because it was a 'known quantity'. That's just me though.)

Costing up all the parts, minus inevitable shipping charges and price changes (Some things are on sale right now), brings a whole new rig for about £723.73. Enough left over for a shiny new monitor.

Now if only I could remember how big my current one is so that I could actually upgrade it...

My 2 cents, I am a big fan of LED lit LCD technology. I've used CRTs, CFFL LCDs, and LED lit LCDs. And hands down, until true LED monitors actually comes out of the labs and into stores. LED lit LCDs are IMO, really good stuff.

This goes into a bit more details,

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1368376

But in general it goes: When stores\brands talk about LED monitors, it's the type of lighting. AFAIK displays made of actual LED or OLED are not easily available (if at all) in the consumer market yet. Not talking about i-phones sized, but computer\tv size displays.

Then it's down to your preference, TN panels can be fast, 120hz fast. IPS panels have better viewing angles. Hard to have both without paying a high premium. And there always seems to be a trade off of some sort.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2194754

Bottom line is what do you like and prefer? You're the one that will be staring at this panel after all. Therefore your requirement is what's key here.

For me I can live with a slightly slower (though supposedly improvement is coming soon) but better viewing angle of an IPS type panel. For others who are heavy into competitive FPShooter games, they want\need the absolute fastest, 120hz, color shift and viewing angles be damned because I'm too busy BOOM HEADSHOT-ting n00bz to care.

Ok it's a bit of a hyperbolic examples, but the point is the best matching of your needs to the panels available.

[Lissa]

Where are you at? If in the US, is there a MicroCenter close by?

[NiteFox]

Re: Graphics card setup - going with a single card at the moment, since I doubt I'll genuinely appreciate the added benefit and expense of doubling up.

As I mentioned, PSU prices do tend to get stupid if you go for anything above 850. It doesn't even seen to scale sensibly: There's a £13 difference going from 650 to 750, a massive £67 difference between 750 and 850, then about £10-£20 increments per 100w from then on. Stupid. The 850 is currently on sale at £10 off, but it doesn't really chew up the massive price difference between the two steps. If I was going to use Crossfire, then it might seem like a safe investment, but the 750w seems like the best bet for my humble rig.

Looking at my hard drive choice, I have been seeing a few horror stories regarding the Caviar Greens. Now that I look back, I'm sure I once had a green that failed rather spectacularly in the old PC. Might switch this to a Black and see what storage upgrades are available.

Going with 8Gb of RAM. Note that the price on OC Gamer's site lists it at £40 but the store price is £54? The price seems to be spiking. I may buy an extra 8Gb if I don't go too crazy with the HDD.

And thanks for the advice about the screens. Everything is much appreciated.

[NiteFox]

Ugh.

I've just realised that when I built this PC I decided to save a fair amount of cash and bought a system builder's OEM version of Windows 7. I always assumed I could just reinstall Windows on my new machine, but nope - while you can with regular versions of the OS, apparently you can't with an OEM.

May as well fall into the same trap twice. Win7 OEMs are about the same price as Win8 OEMs, but despite everything I am still leery about installing Windows 8. Funny thing is that the 64-bit and 32-bit versions are also roughly the same price. Pennies between the two.

Last time I bought a 32-bit OS. I'm not sure if I should have gone for a 64-bit one. Now that I'm faced with the choice again I'm still not sure. Bear in mind this rig would be used mainly for gaming, internet browsing, and my sister's teaching work. So I have a few more questions for this thread:

1) Would a 64-bit OS work with the computer I'm about to assemble: Intel Core i5 3570k, 16GB RAM, yadda yadda yadda? Would it just fail to work completely, or would I see a performance hit or, dare I say it, a performance boost?
2) What would I be able to do with Win7 64 assuming the answer to the previous question goes that way? I know WoW has a 64-bit client, but I've kinda fallen out of love with the game. A few other games might be able to run in 64-bit mode, but I'm not sure which. But if someone lists something snazzy I might be able to do with a 64-bit OS, I may jump on it.
3) What would I not be able to do with Win7 64? Are there any major hardware/software compatibility issues that I should be aware of?

I'm doing a little research on the side, and so far I get the impression that if I'm going with 16GB of RAM that I will need a 64-bit OS. Sigh. I'm beginning to long for the days when all I had to do was just reach for my copy of 98SE and install it on whatever I pleased...

In fact...

4) Dual- or tri-booting Win7/98/Linux: Am I insane?

[Lissa]

Here's a build to look at. Now, unless you plan to XFire or SLI, a 500W PSU will be more than sufficient for today's systems that use Intel based processors.

Also, if you don't plan to overclock, you can save a bit of money by changing to a H77 or B75 chipset and go with a non-unlocked processor.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£166.79 @ Aria PC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£24.49 @ CCL Computers)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77-DS3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£69.99 @ Dabs)
Memory: Patriot Intel Extreme Master, Limited Ed 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£36.23 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£65.00 @ Ebuyer)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£46.74 @ Aria PC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 3GB Video Card (£178.30 @ Dabs)
Case: BitFenix Merc Alpha (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (£32.90 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply (£49.83 @ Dabs)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHOS104-06 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Drive (£21.99 @ Ebuyer)
Total: £692.26
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-04-28 16:02 BST+0100)


Here's the price difference if you don't overclock:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3470 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor (£142.74 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£51.01 @ Dabs)
Memory: Patriot Intel Extreme Master, Limited Ed 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£36.23 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£65.00 @ Ebuyer)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£46.74 @ Aria PC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 3GB Video Card (£178.30 @ Dabs)
Case: BitFenix Merc Alpha (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (£32.90 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply (£49.83 @ Dabs)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHOS104-06 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Drive (£21.99 @ Ebuyer)
Total: £624.74
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-04-28 16:08 BST+0100)

Anothing thing to keep in mind, if you do plan to record game play and the like, you may need to move to a i7 or get a video capture card.

---

Ugh.

I've just realised that when I built this PC I decided to save a fair amount of cash and bought a system builder's OEM version of Windows 7. I always assumed I could just reinstall Windows on my new machine, but nope - while you can with regular versions of the OS, apparently you can't with an OEM.

May as well fall into the same trap twice. Win7 OEMs are about the same price as Win8 OEMs, but despite everything I am still leery about installing Windows 8. Funny thing is that the 64-bit and 32-bit versions are also roughly the same price. Pennies between the two.

Last time I bought a 32-bit OS. I'm not sure if I should have gone for a 64-bit one. Now that I'm faced with the choice again I'm still not sure. Bear in mind this rig would be used mainly for gaming, internet browsing, and my sister's teaching work. So I have a few more questions for this thread:

1) Would a 64-bit OS work with the computer I'm about to assemble: Intel Core i5 3570k, 16GB RAM, yadda yadda yadda? Would it just fail to work completely, or would I see a performance hit or, dare I say it, a performance boost?
2) What would I be able to do with Win7 64 assuming the answer to the previous question goes that way? I know WoW has a 64-bit client, but I've kinda fallen out of love with the game. A few other games might be able to run in 64-bit mode, but I'm not sure which. But if someone lists something snazzy I might be able to do with a 64-bit OS, I may jump on it.
3) What would I not be able to do with Win7 64? Are there any major hardware/software compatibility issues that I should be aware of?

I'm doing a little research on the side, and so far I get the impression that if I'm going with 16GB of RAM that I will need a 64-bit OS. Sigh. I'm beginning to long for the days when all I had to do was just reach for my copy of 98SE and install it on whatever I pleased...

In fact...

4) Dual- or tri-booting Win7/98/Linux: Am I insane?

Actually, you can use the OEM license again. You just need to install it and when it asks you to activate, it will say it was already activated, but will give you a call in number to re-activate it under the new machine instead of the old machine (the old machine will effectively become inactive at that point).

Also, do not buy the 32 bit version, you will be locked to a maximum of 4G of RAM, spend the extra and get 64 bit.

[Hammerskjold]

May as well fall into the same trap twice. Win7 OEMs are about the same price as Win8 OEMs, but despite everything I am still leery about installing Windows 8.

I gave 2 serious tries working with Win8 on a desktop setting. My conclusion: Win 8 usability, on a desktop, is fail whale. Fail whale on a Fail boat, aboard the Fail train.

Everything I heard about Win8 update\service pack\ version 1.2 'Blue', still says to me 'Wait and see the actual release version, because MS can still double down on the stupid'.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2035409/n...ments.html

Reports earlier this week indicated that Microsoft is considering bringing back the pop-up Start menu for the desktop mode as well as a new option to boot straight into desktop mode, bypassing the new “Metro” interface altogether.

Neither of these features, however, seems to have made it into this latest leak of Windows 8.1.

Short version IMO:
-W8 on mobile\touch screen = actually not bad. Add a wacom stylus to that, and you're like an I-pad with more use to me.

-W8 on desktop = WTF?.....I don't even...

-W8 on desktop for productivity = .......BYEOTCH ARE YOU FOR REAL?!!111

Meanwhile Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer is all: Lulz, u mad?

Last time I bought a 32-bit OS. I'm not sure if I should have gone for a 64-bit one. Now that I'm faced with the choice again I'm still not sure. Bear in mind this rig would be used mainly for gaming, internet browsing, and my sister's teaching work. So I have a few more questions for this thread:

1) Would a 64-bit OS work with the computer I'm about to assemble: Intel Core i5 3570k, 16GB RAM, yadda yadda yadda? Would it just fail to work completely, or would I see a performance hit or, dare I say it, a performance boost?

AFAIK it should work. Again AFAIK, you need a 64 bit OS to use RAM amount above 4 gigs.

I'm typing this on my older machine, running 64 bit Vista, Core2 Quad and 4 gigs of old DDR2 RAM (that I didn't get to upgrade in time when it was cheaper).

I do have 64 bit and 32 bit programs that runs fine. Not sure about performance wise, but I suspect it's a wash either way since I have 4 gigs in total. I've ran older games like Diablo 1 Hellfire fine, Fallout 1&2. I don't play much modern games lately, the latest game I have is Torchlight 2. Other productivity programs in 64 bit versions fine, compatibility wise. Same with an older win 98 era graphics program I have, they run fine with no compatibility issues.

I can't give you a 100% guarantee, but from my own use at least, if you're running 64 bit most of the time there should be no problem running 32 bit.

What would I not be able to do with Win7 64?

You will not be able to marvel at how stupidly arrogant and arrogantly stupid shoving an interface more suited to a mobile/ touchscreen, onto a desktop that is NON MOBILE, with NO TOUCHSCREEN.

Are there any major hardware/software compatibility issues that I should be aware of?

None that I'm personally aware of, though I could be wrong. But if anything it should have less problems since W7 is out longer. I use Photoshop CS6, and when I was researching my new work rig specs all the graphics forum said 'Stay away from W8, it's not fully patched \ compatible with CS6 yet. You want to continue using PS smoothly\ use photoshop right away, stick with W7'.

Now all newer OS\products has some teething problem. But I'm still staying away from W8 because it's flaws are deeper than version 1.0 problems.

Unless you absolutely NEED to buy a large touchscreen monitor to play Angry Birds to recreate a Msoft Win8 commercial, then yes you'd be missing out on the wonderful experience by not getting Win8.

I'm doing a little research on the side, and so far I get the impression that if I'm going with 16GB of RAM that I will need a 64-bit OS.

Yep. In general, most things are moving up to 64 bit. While I still see the occasional 4 gig RAM machines being offered, more and more even the big box stores entry level offering of -desktop- machines I see have 6, if not 8 gigs of RAM installed.

TL, DR version:

Also, do not buy the 32 bit version, you will be locked to a maximum of 4G of RAM, spend the extra and get 64 bit.

What Lissa said.

[NiteFox]

Okay, thanks everyone. Parts are ordered, Win7 64 ordered, and now I've got to wait until next month* for everything to get to me. Then it's a case of building and installing software and transferring data.

Really though, I am looking forward to building the rig more than what it could do. It's been a long time since I've slashed my hands open on a sharp edge.

* What? Thursday/Friday is totally next month.

[NiteFox]

Deliveries have been trickling in since Tuesday, with the last expected delivery being set for next Tuesday (the 7th).

A big box from Overclockers came today with all the expected parts inside, several square feet of AirPlus... and this.



10p bag of Haribo Tangfastics. I really wish I was making this up.

[Hammerskjold]

Deliveries have been trickling in since Tuesday, with the last expected delivery being set for next Tuesday (the 7th).

A big box from Overclockers came today with all the expected parts inside, several square feet of AirPlus... and this.



10p bag of Haribo Tangfastics. I really wish I was making this up.

I had to look up the candy you're talking about, at least what I guessed was a candy.

When I came across this link in my search.

http://ask.metafilter.com/209929/Cheapes...-to-NC-USA

Also in that thread:

"..but Southern Season carries a lot of imported candy, even sometimes the illegal Kinder Surprise.

I guess what I'm saying is sure you can eat that candy if you want. Or you can make a profit by selling them to people across the pond.

Though I would stay away from the illegal Kinder Surprise. One day you're just someone who is putting together a personal computer. Next thing you know, you're the Tony Montana of sucrose.



Uh, that white powder is sugar of course.