Ensidia Drops Alagalon 25

[shoju]

News is at MMO champ. I'm pretty impressed by this, and I <3 the shield.

I would have been a lot happier about it if they had a full time prot paladin in the guild:)but, grats to them.

[Swiss Mercenary]

I would have been a lot happier about it if they had a full time prot paladin in the guild:)but, grats to them.

Don't worry, you'll get your second cooldown, leaving warriors in the esteemed position of "Worst tanking class."

My prot warrior GM is conviently taking a 2 month break... Probably in no small part to the healers asking the T7-geared DK to tank every heavy-hitter.

[shoju]

Don't worry, you'll get your second cooldown, leaving warriors in the esteemed position of "Worst tanking class."

My prot warrior GM is conviently taking a 2 month break... Probably in no small part to the healers asking the T7-geared DK to tank every heavy-hitter.

Which to me is insane. I hate that it went from

Warrior - only tank

to

warrior / druid tanks

to warrior / druid / paladin tanks


to warrior / druid / paladin / death knight tanks

and now it's

give me a druid or a death knight, unless it's not that bad. I love being a paladin, and I loved tanking as a paladin. I just wish that they could find a way to even them out so that all 4 tanks were 'the same' for most fights, but then each had a niche. For Paladins, that used to be AoE tanking, and I honestly was ok with that. I know a couple of warrior tanks who are really bitter, and I understand why.

[Mordekhuul]

For Paladins, that used to be AoE tanking, and I honestly was ok with that. I know a couple of warrior tanks who are really bitter, and I understand why.

Not me - the only boss fight in all of TBC that I was a primary tank on and responsible for wiping the raid or doing my job well was phase 3 RoS and as a phase 2 flame tank on Illidan. Anything else was done by our druid or warrior first, and then only later by me once we were easy-mode farming it.

I bet 3.2 sees some major changes in tanking for paladins/warriors. For one thing, there is all the hinting GC did around big changes to the block mechanic to make it relevant again in some way.

[Quark]

Unless Blizzard figures out that 2 minutes of ease followed by 1 minute of BURN ALL TANK AND HEALER COOLDOWNS is getting to be really ridiculous, I don't really see a need for warrior changes beyond making Block not suck. They still have less HP than Druids but I'd rate their cooldowns better and that's coming into play very often.

[Zyn]

Unless Blizzard figures out that 2 minutes of ease followed by 1 minute of BURN ALL TANK AND HEALER COOLDOWNS is getting to be really ridiculous, I don't really see a need for warrior changes beyond making Block not suck. They still have less HP than Druids but I'd rate their cooldowns better and that's coming into play very often.

I absolutely 100% agree, Quark - I know a lot of folks are obsessed with Druid/DK tanks atm, but I personally love the warrior toolkit and think theyre just as viable as any other tank atm.

Why the hate!?

-Z

[Frag]

I absolutely 100% agree, Quark - I know a lot of folks are obsessed with Druid/DK tanks atm, but I personally love the warrior toolkit and think theyre just as viable as any other tank atm.

Why the hate!?

-Z

I think it's the EH difference. I'm far and away the top geared tank we have, and our feral easily has 11k more hp than I do because he can wear Polar gear stuffed with 24 stam gems while sitting near the armor cap and doesn't have to worry about defense. Even in that absurd scenario, which I figured would make him a mana-sponge, my wife says he's slightly easier to heal than I am due to the enormous hits (or, they used to be, given how fast nerfs are coming I'm not certain any of this is relevant), having that much more margin of error on EH is just really difficult to overcome with 'tools' on learning encounters. Specifically since their version of block doesn't completely suck, and swipe is really egregious right this second.:P

All that being said, I still feel useful on my warrior as I can do things that no other tank can, just a little bewildered sometimes.

~FragB)

[Lissa]

Unless Blizzard figures out that 2 minutes of ease followed by 1 minute of BURN ALL TANK AND HEALER COOLDOWNS is getting to be really ridiculous, I don't really see a need for warrior changes beyond making Block not suck. They still have less HP than Druids but I'd rate their cooldowns better and that's coming into play very often.

What really hurt Warriors with a Prot Paladin along was the change to BoSanc. Now that BoSanc is really only going to assist a Paladin in tanking (just gives back mana instead of rage and RP like it use to) that hurt as Warriors couldn't go nuts stacking Avoidance and still gain rage while take few physical hits. Sadly, Warrior tanking right now is way more niche that it use to be which is the big shame in it.

Paladins still have their big trick, the ability to out threat any other tank. If I get in the first bit of threat on a boss, unless the other tanks taunt or I fail at letting RF fall :whistling:, no other tank will catch me in threat and I can out threat another tank and take a boss over without needing to taunt as well (I've done this several times).

DKs are slowly getting nerfed down, that's begun as they no longer get as much armor while in frost presence. When asked by one of the DKs on SR what Warrior and Paladin tanks had for armor with a shield before the frost presence change went in, they realized that they had more armor than a equally tier equipped Warrior or Palaadin and that with lowering of the effect of frost presence they now had armor levels equal to said Warriors and Paladins.

Druids are in the pedullum movement now swinging from underpowered to overpowered as Blizzard tries to find a good middle ground. Prior 3.0.8, Druids had a lot of issues that made the other tanks better choices on most boss fights. Now with the buffs from 3.0.8 and 3.1, Druids are being choosen more often in a variety of fights because they've swung from underpowered to overpowered.

The only think we can do right now is wait for 3.2 and see what happens then.

[PapaSmurf]

our feral easily has 11k more hp than I do because he can wear Polar gear stuffed with 24 stam gems while sitting near the armor cap and doesn't have to worry about defense.

And that is the crux of the problem IMO. Having 1 tanking class that can have ZERO def and be crit immune gives them too much of an advantage. I really think the def cap should be lowered for other tanks so that they have same kind of flexibility that bears do for gearing for different roles.

Blizzard has already stated that they don't want gear specific to Bears. It's why there is no staff in ulduar that has armor. As long as they keep that philosophy they really can't require large def for Bears. I just think the differential is too high right now. Either give the other tanks talents that increase defense or lower the rating requirement to be crit immune.

[Concillian]

They still have less HP than Druids but I'd rate their cooldowns better and that's coming into play very often.

The druid cooldowns are the same as warrior cooldowns.

Barkskin + frenzied regen = glyphed shield wall ( 3 minute cooldown )

but barkskin is also castable every 1 minute without frenzied regen. Or you can use them as separate cooldowns if you don't need the full 40%.

survival instincts = last stand
glyphs are slightly different, with last stand being castable more often, and instincts being more health buffer (but barkskin more often means you pretty much have that covered if needed.)

Very similar overall. I rate the druid set a little more flexible because of the short cooldown on barkskin.

[Mavfin]

Best thing I've done for my warrior in Ulduar tanking is 2 min shield wall.

[Quark]

The druid cooldowns are the same as warrior cooldowns.

Barkskin + frenzied regen = glyphed shield wall ( 3 minute cooldown )

but barkskin is also castable every 1 minute without frenzied regen. Or you can use them as separate cooldowns if you don't need the full 40%.

survival instincts = last stand
glyphs are slightly different, with last stand being castable more often, and instincts being more health buffer (but barkskin more often means you pretty much have that covered if needed.)

Very similar overall. I rate the druid set a little more flexible because of the short cooldown on barkskin.

I'm not sure 20% + healing is the same as 40% (@2 min, or 60% @3 min). Healers bringing a target from 10% to 100% isn't tough, surviving the hit so that you're at 10% and not dead is. More importantly, Warrior 4pc gives an extra cooldown with Shield Block reducing magic damage. That's big, especially on Mimiron where the Plasma Blast damage gets to be a little insane.

[Kevin]

More importantly, Warrior 4pc gives an extra cooldown with Shield Block reducing magic damage. That's big, especially on Mimiron where the Plasma Blast damage gets to be a little insane.

And it's good to balance a class around a 4pc set bonus? Or more accurately pretty much make that 4pc bonus required to tank certain hard modes so that if the RNG doesn't like you, you get screwed.

I don't disagree, that set bonus is huge, but it's required to get once class essentially to the base level of another, that's not good design.

[Taelas]

Blizzard has talked about reworking Block. Let's hope they fix it right.

[Zyn]

And it's good to balance a class around a 4pc set bonus? Or more accurately pretty much make that 4pc bonus required to tank certain hard modes so that if the RNG doesn't like you, you get screwed.

I don't disagree, that set bonus is huge, but it's required to get once class essentially to the base level of another, that's not good design.

In other news, Blizzard is contemplating buffing Resto Shamans' Chain Heal via a new Set Bonus to make them competitive to Priest/Druid HPS in Uld-25 Hard Modes! SO, Im right there with ya -- Underwhelmed.

;)

-Z