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+--- Thread: Deutschland, deutschland uber alles (/thread-15479.html)
Deutschland, deutschland uber alles - Ashock - 08-31-2013
Coming soon to a country near you or possibly near and dear to you?
http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/police-storm-homeschool-class-take-children-by-force/
RE: Deutschland, deutschland uber alles - Jester - 08-31-2013
(08-31-2013, 08:51 AM)Ashock Wrote: Coming soon to a country near you or possibly near and dear to you?
http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/police-storm-homeschool-class-take-children-by-force/
I'm a bit perplexed by why they don't move to a country where it is legal, if they're willing to take the matter so far as to confront the state directly. It's legal almost everywhere in Europe, and an EU passport is enough.
That said, if it's down to civil disobedience, I do think a well-regulated homeschooling system is a good idea. Hopefully, this provokes some change.
-Jester
RE: Deutschland, deutschland uber alles - Alram - 08-31-2013
(08-31-2013, 10:50 AM)Jester Wrote:(08-31-2013, 08:51 AM)Ashock Wrote: Coming soon to a country near you or possibly near and dear to you?
http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/police-storm-homeschool-class-take-children-by-force/
I'm a bit perplexed by why they don't move to a country where it is legal, if they're willing to take the matter so far as to confront the state directly. It's legal almost everywhere in Europe, and an EU passport is enough.
That said, if it's down to civil disobedience, I do think a well-regulated homeschooling system is a good idea. Hopefully, this provokes some change.
-Jester
They did move, but had to move back. It says so in the article.
Quote:As WND reported, the Romeike case has been submitted to the U.S. Supreme Court. In 2010, an immigration judge granted asylum in the U.S. to the family, which fled Germany because their children were forced to go to public schools.
The Obama administration, unhappy with the outcome, appealed and obtained an order from a higher court that the family must return to Germany. The Obama administration has argued in court parents essentially have no right to determine how and what their children are taught, leaving the authority with the government.
Also:
Quote:The family earlier was subjected to an ordeal in France when police snatched the children from their home there, accusing them of “being alone.”The article links to the story about "an ordeal in France"
At the time, two French social workers and two police officers appeared without notice at the home of Dominique Chanal in St. Leonard, France, where Dirk and Angela Wunderlich and their children were living.
The family had fled Germany because of a series of fines imposed for homeschooling. The children were released a short time later. But Dirk Wunderlich was forced last year to return his family to Germany because he could not find work elsewhere.
http://www.wnd.com/2009/10/112106/
The gist is that the Germans were responsible for the French raid.
This is an extreme reaction by the German government. It is as though someone has an axe to grind with the family. This is simply incredible.
RE: Deutschland, deutschland uber alles - Jester - 08-31-2013
(08-31-2013, 02:02 PM)Alram Wrote: This is an extreme reaction by the German government. It is as though someone has an axe to grind with the family. This is simply incredible.
I would prefer a more flexible homeschooling law, but this doesn't strike me as crazy or vindictive. The Germans are enforcing their education laws, which require parents to send their children to school. Obeying the law in Germany means public schooling. Given that the parents refuse to cooperate, I'm not sure what else the German state can do here, other than simply fail to enforce their own laws. From what I can see, they sent warnings, they issued fines, and finally, they sent their social services. You can say this is a protest, I suppose. But civil disobedience means accepting the penalty.
Part of the deal with the European Union is that, just as the Wunderlich family is free to move to France, so too are the Germans able to enforce fines or other legal threats across borders. The article seems to state that they owed substantial fines for previous resistance to public schooling, and fled to avoid facing them.
Do we have an account of this that doesn't come from either World Net Daily, or from the HSLDA? So long as we're talking about grinding axes, neither of these organizations strikes me as even remotely neutral in reporting. Is there a credible source, who didn't attach the Godwin-like "You know who else didn't allow homeschooling? HITLER" argument?
-Jester
RE: Deutschland, deutschland uber alles - FireIceTalon - 08-31-2013
Gotta keep that conveyer belt of future wage slaves going. The German state is just doing what its role requires it do: procuring and protecting the long term interests and future of German capital.
RE: Deutschland, deutschland uber alles - Alram - 08-31-2013
(08-31-2013, 06:59 PM)FireIceTalon Wrote: Gotta keep that conveyer belt of future wage slaves going. The German state is just doing what its role requires it do: procuring and protecting the long term interests and future of German capital.
You are aware that the Communist Manifesto of Marx includes public schooling.
RE: Deutschland, deutschland uber alles - FireIceTalon - 08-31-2013
Indeed. And I am not against public education, but rather the arrangement of public education in a capitalist (or any class-based social organization) society and the aims it serves in such a society. If socialism prevails, public schooling doesn't stop. But its social arrangements, purposes, and entire context change drastically from what it is now, just as it did from feudal society to modern bourgeois society.
Also keep in mind I don't necessarily agree with everything written in The Manifesto word for word, even if I agree with the fundamentals (Historical Materialism, class struggles, etc) of what it conveys. There are parts of it that even they admitted were outdated or no longer plausible or of interest to the proletariats cause, and have thus been rejected or updated since. Public education isn't one of those things, but the implementation of a central bank for instance, is.