06-18-2011, 09:39 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-18-2011, 09:42 AM by FireIceTalon.)
(06-17-2011, 08:45 PM)Gnollguy Wrote:(06-17-2011, 08:35 PM)--Pete Wrote:(06-17-2011, 07:46 PM)Nystul Wrote: The free market is our collective will influencing that. ... We can talk about ideals but in the real world the market influence simply cannot be ignored.
Don't overlook the importance of propaganda (call it advertising, brainwashing, imprinting -- it's all the same thing). Look at the history of smoking from the '40s to the present. Look at the attitude toward nuclear power. Look at how we dress, the houses we live in, the cars we choose to drive, the food we eat, the people we vote for, etc. Individually, some of us make up our own minds on *some* issues. Collectively, Mad-Ave tries to (and often does) make up our minds for us.
So, the free market is indeed very powerful. I'm just not sure how much of it is *our* collective will and how much of it is *their* collective propaganda.
--Pete
Which oddly is one of the points I think FireIceTalon was trying to make but got lost in transmission.
Of course that can be pushed by Madison Ave, or it can be pushed Big Brother, or by anyone with power. I don't think it is market dependent, it is human power craving driven and whatever system they can bend to do so they will.
Indeed. Propaganda ultimately having an negative impact on the direction social discourse takes, as well as influence on our culture in general, was one of my original points. But this is probably more along the lines of Adorno, rather than Marx
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"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)