what do Americans think about the NSA scandal

[kandrathe]

Can anyone tell me what the sentiment among the American people is regarding this NSA spy scandal?

Well, is he a spy? Or, is he a whistle blower? I would posit that he may have revealed crimes against the country committed by the NSA in violation of the 4th amendment -- (The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.)

However, Snowden is also in violation of whatever "contracts" he signed to get his security clearance, and he is guilty of affecting the integrity of his employer. For those "crimes", he should be held accountable. Did he pass sensitive material to the enemy? No, since Glenn Greenwald is an American Journalist. He passed the proof of the existence of government programs that violate our laws to the press.

There are large parts of the population that downright hate Barrack Obama because he dares to give health insurance to everyone, and that is to much intrusion in people's lives, so I guess especially republicans are outraged now?

Not withstanding that Barrak Obama lacks the personal funding to give people anything. What he and his supporters want, is to give away what they don't have the means to give. So, therefore they then need to use the force of government to take away the earnings of people so as to then redistribute in the way they see is proper. What I object to in the Health Insurance debate is that what they did do is the worst of all possible choices. Had they merely taken over all health insurance as a government function, it would have been better than what they enacted -- which is another government layer of bureaucracy, between patients and doctors. What they are doing will increase the costs of health insurance by between 40% and 100% depending on the plan. What they will do is force more people to opt out of getting health insurance, and pay the IRS a fine. The boon is either to big pharma, or big health care, or to government. The losers are the people who want affordable health insurance. In classic Orwellian double speak, "The Affordable Care Act" - is neither.

I mean this current spying on citizens is a few steps worse than the government telling you you can't wear your automatic rifle to school.

But, the Federal government can not tell you not to bring your gun to schools. The schools do have some autonomy to regulate themselves, however more and more that is being taken over at the State level. FYI -- I learned to shoot pistols at my public high school in the 7th grade. I learned to shoot long guns at age 13 in a 6 week summer course offered by the NRA, before my first trip hunting in the wilds of Northern Minnesota. But, I know the concept of wild spaces is hard to fathom for Netherlanders. Everything there seems like a well kept garden.

(I made a comment in another thread but I find this subject is important enough to gets its own thread)

To add to this thread:
also herein the Netherlands our AIVD (dutch NSA) is doing similar things, though on a smaller scale, and not with so much freedom but also here there is not yet real public outrage. A few political parties complain, but it is not the same outrage that flows over the country as when for example a humpback whale gets stranded and they don't manage to pull him back to open sea. (yes this is sarcasm).

I was pretty mad this morning when I heard on the news a woman saying the NSA data mining was ok, since companies like VISA are collecting much more. I was thinking, but.. but.. I voluntarily have a contract with VISA for them to provide me with services, and VISA doesn't have the power to kick down my door when I don't pay the bill. If either VISA, or I feel the other has violated the contract we can go our own ways, or seek recompense through civil litigation. I can't opt out of governance. Trust me... Some days I wish... Personally, I'm not sure which makes me more upset; that my government is **%^%^ing me, or that I'm also forced to pay for it.

I think there are just many things that are much too complicated for normal people to even get angry or upset about, or there is a general numbness when such things happen.......I mean I also haven't gone protesting yet. These are things you know are trampling your rights, but because you don't see a direct threat to your personal situation you tend to care not so much.

It's just starting. I think the *real* issue with legs here will be the damage that has been done to Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, etc. There really will be economic harm done to these companies when people are loath to participate if they believe all their private information will end up being analyzed on a government run zeta byte server farm in Utah, ready to be used against you at whim. It is in a way no different than what they done to air travel. You are free to fly, if you don't mind having your rights violated (of such parochial concepts, such as being treated as innocent until proven guilty). You are free to purchase things, however, try buying 12 pressure cookers, or a bunch of grow lights and see how long it takes before the jack booted thugs kick in your door. You are free to use a phone, or the Internet, but just know that everything you do is being watched and recorded.

"The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged to act a part, but that it was impossible to avoid joining in." -- Orwell, 1984

We gotta get them [s] Ruskies [\s] Terrorists. (Aw, shoot. I thought we had strike through tags.) You must watch the 24/7 propaganda show -- but, the government is now beginning the lose the 4th estate (who bought into the Obama administration with a tingle down their legs.) They organized against Bush, and rallied against the Republican control freaks until their guy was elected. Obama doubled down on drones, and domestic spying, and going after prosecuting the press in whistle blowing cases. So, the once clarion bells of war propaganda now ring hollow. The veil of decency is shredded. To stand by it now just makes you into a bigger liar.

And this is the exact thing mentioned in other threads about thinking you live in a democracy as compared to the people in Cuba for example, but actually your liberties are taken away in a more subtle way.

We have boiled the frogs by slowly turning up the heat.

The whole situation becomes even more clear if you see that the US security agencies just discard information from the Russians about the brothers who committed the Boston attacks.......apparently anti terrorism is not the reason for spying on us.

DING! Eppie wins for seeing the big picture. Security theater is about making the government bigger and more powerful, but not about rooting out the element that justifies their existence. That would be counter-productive. The last thing the military industrial complex wants is the end of hostilities.

Peace is just bad for business.