Talk about obnoxious...

[Occhidiangela]

I think the point about "immigrants made America" isn't that you *need* them, but that you *are* them.

No I am not, Jester, nor are most Americans. I am American. Born here of American parents. I am not an immigrant. Do you understand that concept? I have a country, a nation, and its name has no hyphen.

Unless you're full-blooded indigenous, you or your ancestors came to already-occupied land searching for opportunity (against the wishes of the occupants, in a great many cases). These are people trying to do the same, and now they are being kept out in the name of the great "we Americans," which is somewhat out of sync with the history of your country. The people whose "needs" are being considered has changed.

Way to perpetuate the Big Lie.

The "indigenous" weren't ever American until they chose to assimilate, were conquered, or variously blended into the oddball mix that makes America what it is. Some chose to opt out, not to assimilate, and live on the reservation and remain "indigenous."

This land, my nation, wasn't America until the European migration and mixing made it so, and until a considerable amount of blood was shed to form it, and to bound it: to set its borders.

Take the fallacious word game, and put it back in the misnomer drawer.

Why not just ease up the immigration laws? Then you could stop throwing around kill-on-sight strategies for getting rid of people who just want to make a living for themselves and their families. After all, the problem is that they're coming illegally, not that they're coming at all, right?

-Jester
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Sure, and ease up on the robbery laws while we are at it? I want my neignbors BMW. Heck, I'd like a little relief from the assault and battery laws after I break them, given there are a few folks I'd like to beat over the head with a baseball bat. (J/K)

The problem is indeed that the illegals are coming at all. The legal immigrants are more than welcome to come here and join in the great quest for that ever elusive American dream.

Generally law abiding, coming in under the lawful, Constitutionally vlaid policies already in force.

For a guy who likes to quote international law as much as you do, I find your disrespect of my nation's laws slightly hypocritical. (I find the disregard of those same laws by some of our own politicians greviously insulting. You, I'll buy a Guinness for. Not them.) FWIW, I also find hypocritical that Pres Bush tried to strong arm the recent Afghan court who, under their laws, were sentencing an apostate Muslim who converted to Christianity to death. Under due process of law, just as we do here in Texas. Smell the irony. The Pope needs to stay the hell out of our judicial process, we need to stay out of the Afghan's judicial process. Heck, they had an election, is Pres Bush asserting that their "democracy" isn't valid? If so, what are we doing over there?

My grandparents on one side were legal immigrants within this century. Names still at Ellis Island. Obeyed the rules. Did not break the law to enter the country. A few generations back were some Scots and Irish immigrants. And so on.

I am a native born American, here in America of American parents, just as a native born German is born in Germany, and a native born Spaniard is born in Spain. Or are they all Goths? By your implied standard of "reaching far back" all those Germans are Goths, or Franks, and not really Germans.

You might be surprised at how harsh, down here in South Texas, some of the second and third generation Americans of Mexican descent are on illegal immigration. They have no more taste for it than I do. They did it right, their families did it right, the hard and lawful way, and are resentful of the freeloaders.

Occhi