My never having played thoughts

[Roland]

You said each spider hits twice right? So that would be 76% weapon damage per hit which then would be 152% per cast. Spread over some time, but better than the 140% you quoted for the basic Poison Dart. Another thing that I hear Devs mention is animation time. I'm really not sure how that factors into things with all these sort of numbers. If you have to wait for a full animation then that is something else to consider with every spell. No clue what spell that would favor. I also recall somebody in a conversation with Treesh (can't recall if it was on the forums or on the podcast) saying something about that depending on if you have the skill on the mouse or on the action bar. So there are other variables in play to consider for calculating dps. Still, just knowing that each spider hits twice already makes their damage more respectable.

Couldn't tell you much about animation times on mouse versus skillbar. Seems like a stupid thing to have be different, but I wouldn't put it past the devs. I will say that the DPS output of the Spiders is slow, period, because as I said it's a random DoT. I could much more easily and efficiently clear out mobs with Splintered Poison Darts (3x Darts @ 60% each) than I could with Leaping Spiders, because I could control who fell and when. Spiders you'd have to just keep lobbing them until everything died, with minimal control on who would get hit, so it kept packs of monsters alive much longer, despite technically doing more damage. Also, as I said there seems to be an invisible cap on how many Spiders you can have out, which does not affect Poison Dart, so after a certain point more Spiders don't seem to keep increasing your damage output.

I watched a gameplay video from some guy that goes by the name Force a week or so ago. In it he used various skills as he leveled and they became available. When he picked up spiders he commented that in a previous patch's playthrough he found them rather week. Then he went on to play with them and started commenting on how they seemed much stronger than they were previously. I have no clue if it was because of drop luck or a patch change or what, but it does make me question some of what I have read about them. Without any knowledge of how recently somebody has tested a skill it is very hard to know if they are even basing things on the most current version. Add in all the possible unknowns like I spoke of earlier in this post and I really do think your not having a problem with their killing speed is going to be more accurate than some who have said they are overly bad. Of course you and I both tend to be more tolerating of killing speed too. Judging from knowledge of some of our antics in WoW. So that could have something to do with it as well.

I played right up through the last patch. There were no more patches forthcoming when I played every single class through to max level, and tried every single skill and rune available. For groups of mobs I found the Spiders to be too slow in killing, and too varied in their target selection compared to Poison Dart. Frogs was, as Treesh said, a very difficult skill to work with. The Wizard's charged bolt-esque skill actually worked much more reliably than Plague of Toads, especially at point-blank, whereas Toads would miss for me more often than hit. I'm sure with some more practice you might learn the "pattern" better and start hitting more reliably, but frankly I found the skill frustrating to use - moreso than spiders. Of course, this won't be a problem with Toad of Hugeness, because it's a single-target spell.

That is a skill I do keep debating. In a play through I watched before putting together my build it did look quite good. It is a skill I have considered for my build, but it just barely lost out. Basically it would replace either Wall or Toad. I could go Grasp + Wall, but that seems a bit overkill in the AOE control category. So I think it likely to keep Toad for small scale control and debate between Grasp and Wall for the other slot. They both seem like really good skills to me. Grasp is more versatile with it's shorter cooldown so you can lay down more of them to really control things. I think what decided me on Wall is really just that it looks really cool. I actually do wonder if Grasp will be more effective in the long run though.

Never got to play with Wall, but Grasp was loads of fun. Not too different from Caltrops for the DH, which I used very often. Play with each and see which suits your style more.

I didn't even think of that it is a static boost. Does it increase by level like Monk heals do? I'd think surely it must otherwise it would get left behind really quickly. Still, it does make one wonder where it will stand later. A lot will depend on how fast it grows and what level stats are at on later gear. I think it is a good point you make Bizono.

The intelligence boost is, AFAIK, a static boost. However, remember that for every point in Intelligence you gain a .1% boost in DPS, so +100 Intelligence equals 10% more DPS. Therefore it scales perfectly fine for its intended purpose - up to 65% more DPS (no one else in the game gets that kind of boost, and for that long).

As I said, take spiders and try them out. I didn't enjoy them, while others may. I knew people who used Toads when I couldn't stand them, and instead relied upon Splintered Poison Dart. That's part of the beauty of D3 - every skill is designed to be viable, and flexible with Runes. I personally simply didn't find Spiders to be a worthwhile skill to me. I felt I was spending more time waiting for things to die than I was with other skills, and I don't like hands-off playstyles. DoTs are fine so long as the gameplay remains engaging (ala Poison / Bone / Curse Necro), but pets just don't do it for me.