The Iraq War retrospective Thread

[--Pete]

Hi,

We have carrots and sticks, that's it. After a decade of carrot parades, the US decided to use the stick.

Please, get it right. The story is about a carrot tied to a stick so that it is always out of reach. It's about promises made in bad faith. It has damned all to do with reward and punishment. Don't join the ignorant masses in misusing this bit of our heritage.

Had I known then, what I know now, would I still want an Iraq war? That depends on what the future would have been with a Mr. Hussein and sons still in power there.

If you want to know the future, look at the past. Hussein was a bastard, but he did keep the country stabilized throughout his tenure. All we've accomplished is destabilization. And given our actions in Gitmo and elsewhere, I don't think we can even claim much of a moral superiority.

I think the net we had Hussein in was full of holes, and the US knew that in time he would be free. That is why I think we rushed to war.

What made it our concern apart from our commitment to the UN? No. Shrub wanted to show his was bigger than his father's, and the Texas Oil Gang wanted to get richer. And Powell was either a fool and a dupe or he sold out.

Now, having broke the thing, it was ours to fix. It would have been a legacy worse to have deposed and executed Hussein and company then left the field to civil war and decades of strife and death.

Since it is our continued presence that is largely to blame for the strife and death, staying is worse than leaving.

My position now is that the US and some of our allies have so far spent 500 billion and thousands of precious lives securing and building a new Iraq, and that damn well better be an investment we are willing to follow through to its conclusion.

Ever heard of throwing good money after bad? Since the people of Iraq don't seem to be interested in cleaning their own outhouse, why should we give a damn. Yeah, we overthrew a working government. But that government came out of a period of chaos. So, let them do it again. Except for supplying large quantities of funds to fuel the endemic corruption of that region, we're really not contributing squat.

At least with their oil reserves, and the prices the way they are, Iraq may pay us back within the decade. We should not fully leave Iraq until at least the bulk of the debt has been paid.

Yeah. And pigs will fly. The US citizens will foot the bills (and not just this generation) and Exxon will reap the profits.

How important is Iwo Jima today?

Apples to cowpies. Iwo was a step in the process. A process that was forced onto this nation. Iraq is the goal, although I'm damned if I can figure just why.

I'd still say it's too soon to know if the Iraq war is a success or not.

We went in under the lie of WMD. Since there weren't any, we failed to secure them. Everything since has been lies to cover lies. As each reason to enter and continue the war is exposed as another Shrub and Gang falsehood, a new, equally bogus reason is raised. And a sufficient portion of the nation is sucked in.

Will Iraq emerge as a peace loving and prosperous thriving nation who resolves its grievances through the UN? I hope so.

Those too stupid to look at history are doomed to repeat it. Show me when, at least from the assassination of Genghis Kahn's ambassadors till now, Baghdad has ever been rational. Perhaps ffifer has developed a pill that turns barbarians into civilized people. If so, news hasn't reached here yet.

Consider Vietnam and Afghanistan, . . . {blah, blah, blah}

Have you noticed that Russia is now a mobocracy verging on becoming a dictatorship? That *Communist* China is the biggest investor in our economy? Both those countries are a bigger threat to our existence than they were during the Cold War -- not least because we at least perceived them to be a threat then. So, yeah, right, it all worked out so well.

So, was the Iraq war worth it? Time will tell. I don't think leaving it a mess is a proper strategy for a successful conclusion.

THERE IS NO SUCCESSFUL CONCLUSION!!!!!!! You have a culture (using the word in its loosest possible way) that only understands strong-man rule. Sure, they'll agree to elections. And terrorism is their preferred method of campaigning. When the election is over, the losing sides revert to the rule of the AK-47.

Sometimes the only rational thing to do is admit your mistakes and walk away. Lacking any plan better than a one hundred occupation (and, no, it will not be like that of DEFEATED Japan nor of CIVILIZED Europe), then pulling out is the only rational option.

People get the government they deserve. Iraq got Hussein because that's all that works there.

--Pete