Moved from D1 forum

[FireIceTalon]

Socialism > capitalism.

Why can't it be a balance between the two? After all, lots of things in the US are socialist already (schools, garbage pickup, roads, etc). I don't think even the most fervent Tea Bagger is opposed to every single socialist government-run program (or are they? I'm not even sure anymore).

The problem isn't "big business" really, it's the influence that big business has on elected officials. I'm really not sure why lobbying is a legal practice. Can anyone explain to me in simple terms why it's not bribery?

You can call me materialistic and a consumerist all you want, but I really like being able to have stuff. I like my plasma TV. I like my computer. I like the fact that just today I washed my car and felt really good about owning it.

I also recognize the fact that I am better off than most people in my country, so I don't mind paying a little extra tax. Every bit of extra tax I pay goes to someone that probably needs it more than I do.

I more or less agree with this. Bribery is indeed a huge problem in our political arena because it gives those with wealth and power an unfair advantage in the political process over everyone else, thus civil society continues on a course that is not in our best interest. Would it be reaching to say that we are democracy only in name, and not so much in practice? And of course, politicians themselves tend to be rather well off, so Im sure it is difficult for them to understand the needs of the average person. But big business itself has become too powerful. Even within the corporations themselves, its anything but a democracy. Corporations by their very nature are authoritarian. All rights disappear once you go in the door, they make all the rules and determine the culture to the point where it can affect people's personal lives, everything from doing credit checks during the hiring process (a form of class warfare) to creating rules such as not being allowed to date someone within the company who is married. Now, im not one who condones adultery, but it is NOT the business of the corporation to tell someone who they can date in their personal life. The government could never get away with something like this, so why should corporations? Rights for a person are an obstacle to that evil P word (profit), so naturally, corporations gladly accept the rights of individuals but without the responsibility that comes with such freedom.

I dont think socialism is perfect by any means, as there is no such thing as a completely perfect system, not even Marxism which I have defended in my previous posts. That said, I think a social democracy as seen in the Scandinavian countries or France is the best system contrived thus far that contains some elements of capitalism but those who are less fortunate are taken care of much better than they are here, or so says the consensus. The crime in those countries, and social problems in general, are much less than here because there is much less economic inequality. Overall, I think socialism benefits a greater number of people. In capitalism, you are required to take risks in order to succeed to at least some degree. If one has alot of resources to fall back on, this is easy enough, but what about for those who don't (and there is alot more of these people, as the wealthy are a tiny minority)? My logic here is based on an idea of John Rawls' theory of justice as fairness. Rawls was a brilliant thinker as well, though he promoted equality of opportunity rather then equality of outcome as Marx did. But unfortunately we have a flawed logic here in America, a belief that all men are created equal and have an equal opportunity in the pursuit of life, liberty and success. But this is not so. And then its further compounded by the belief that if one does take responsibility for success, they must also do so for failure....this is a bad way of thinking because it implies that those who do fail are lazy or unmotivated or even unintelligent, which is not usually true. Since we do have socialism here to some degree as you mentioned, as seen in roads, drinking water, police, public transportation, etc.....why do we feel the need to privatize (uff, that is such a dirty word) quality healthcare and higher education into profit making commodities? Should not everyone be entitled to these things, regardless of their income or social class? Our social darwinistic culture says they shouldnt be, and only those who have the means to pay are entitled - Profits first, well-being and quality of life, integrity and character last. This is one of the fundamental problems I have with capitalism. It is ironic we want to be the worlds police and so-called role model nation for everyone else. We have this elitist attitude that the rest of the world has to catch up to us. If you ask me, it is US that has the catching up to do, not the other way around (at least in terms of healthcare and education, but probably much else as well).

Having material things is fine. Hell, I have a laptop of which I have used to type all my posts here, a cell phone, and yes, gasp, an Ipod. But that said, everything in moderation. I dont know how it is in other countries as I have admittedly never traveled outside the United States (I hope to change this one day, hopefully sooner than later), but our culture here promotes materialism and consumerism so heavily it seems to me that it becomes what defines many of us. And this is unfortunate. I guess its a status thing? If you ask most Americans what they would do if they won the lottery tomorrow, the typical answer of course is pay off all debt, buy some fancy car, a mansion, and every other material thing they ever wanted......if it were me, id buy a new car (not cause I want one, but cause I actually need it) but not a fancy sports car or even a luxury car, just a normal Toyota or something that is economical, and I would pay for my education and use the money to travel and read (Im one of those people who walks into a bookstore, goes to the political and history section and gets depressed because I know there isnt enough time in a lifetime to read them all), and save the rest for my retirement, though if I am doing what I love, I may never have to retire (truely a Marxist way of thinking right there ). But id' probably want to use it in some way that would benefit society as a whole, such as creating a needs based scholarship with it or something for dedicated but less fortunate students like myself. Ironically enough, if higher education was accessible to everyone, no one would need scholarships. Oh but wait a minute, that means those who come from a lower social class could attend Harvard alongside rich kids, and heaven forbid we allow that......heh.

I come from a middle class background I guess you could say. Neither of my parents are highly educated (my dad only obtained his AA in business, moms completed high school) by any means but they did work extremely hard and did fairly well for themselves, though now with this economy both are struggling and that hard work which paid off before seems to have gone down the drain, and it is this in part which has made me come to question and even downright loathe capitalism as a legitimate economic system. Our nature is very much determined by extrinsic factors such as our environment, in many ways. If you come from a wealthy background and have little to worry about in the way of survival and quality of life, capitalism is indeed an ideal and probably even preferable system. But for the rest of us, who lack the culture or social capital or resources of our wealthy counterparts, it seems much less appealing.