06-17-2011, 08:35 PM
Hi,
This is one of my pet peeves. Both the statements: "The ends justify the means" and "The ends do not justify the means" are logical nonsense and reflect a lack of thought.
If the means don't need justifying, then both statements are moot and best dropped from the conversation.
If the means need justifying, then it is *only* the ends which can justify them. For instance, cutting someone is not a good means; removing an infected appendix is a good ends. In this case, the ends justify the means.
The point is that in each case where the means need justifying, the ends must be examined. The only reasonable statement is "Sometimes the ends don't justify the means, sometimes they do" -- and as with most reasonable statements, it just doesn't have enough shock value for people to quote it.
Nah, we were much more mature back then.
Don't overlook the importance of propaganda (call it advertising, brainwashing, imprinting -- it's all the same thing). Look at the history of smoking from the '40s to the present. Look at the attitude toward nuclear power. Look at how we dress, the houses we live in, the cars we choose to drive, the food we eat, the people we vote for, etc. Individually, some of us make up our own minds on *some* issues. Collectively, Mad-Ave tries to (and often does) make up our minds for us.
So, the free market is indeed very powerful. I'm just not sure how much of it is *our* collective will and how much of it is *their* collective propaganda.
--Pete
(06-17-2011, 03:41 PM)kandrathe Wrote: ... the ends do not justify the means.
This is one of my pet peeves. Both the statements: "The ends justify the means" and "The ends do not justify the means" are logical nonsense and reflect a lack of thought.
If the means don't need justifying, then both statements are moot and best dropped from the conversation.
If the means need justifying, then it is *only* the ends which can justify them. For instance, cutting someone is not a good means; removing an infected appendix is a good ends. In this case, the ends justify the means.
The point is that in each case where the means need justifying, the ends must be examined. The only reasonable statement is "Sometimes the ends don't justify the means, sometimes they do" -- and as with most reasonable statements, it just doesn't have enough shock value for people to quote it.
(06-17-2011, 07:46 PM)Nystul Wrote: This thread reminds me of junior high.
Nah, we were much more mature back then.
(06-17-2011, 07:46 PM)Nystul Wrote: The free market is our collective will influencing that. ... We can talk about ideals but in the real world the market influence simply cannot be ignored.
Don't overlook the importance of propaganda (call it advertising, brainwashing, imprinting -- it's all the same thing). Look at the history of smoking from the '40s to the present. Look at the attitude toward nuclear power. Look at how we dress, the houses we live in, the cars we choose to drive, the food we eat, the people we vote for, etc. Individually, some of us make up our own minds on *some* issues. Collectively, Mad-Ave tries to (and often does) make up our minds for us.
So, the free market is indeed very powerful. I'm just not sure how much of it is *our* collective will and how much of it is *their* collective propaganda.
--Pete
How big was the aquarium in Noah's ark?