The Iraq War retrospective Thread

[kandrathe]

You're certainly looking, but, like the Bush administration, you're not finding much. I know they found plenty of palaces, but where were Iraq's chemical weapon's manufacturing facilities, it's bioweapons labs, it's nuclear enrichment plants? Never mind the aluminum tubes most likely intended for short-range rockets, but portrayed by the Bush administration as for centrifuges, or the trailers most likely used for the production of hydrogen gas, but claimed by the Bush administration to be mobile bioweapons labs.

You are focusing on those things that were not found. Your opinion of what is incriminating has a very high standard. You still do not accept the things that were found, and are true.

And, regarding the tubes, "A key player in claiming that the tubes were for centrifuges was a CIA analyst who was a former member of the US gas centrifuge program at Oak Ridge prior to its cancellation in 1985. In the media, he has been referred to as Joe. The Washington Post reported on August 10, 2003 that the CIA gave him an award for exceptional performance." Joe was a credible source. Joe knows more about gas centrifuges than you or I. But, Albright was correct in my opinion, that the tubes were to build knock offs of Medusa Rockets.

To try a third time, I think I understand your support for the war as basically along the lines of: "let's take the bastard out now and be done with it". Going back to my original comments, there was no immediate threat to the US from Iraq, and no credible evidence at the time that such a threat existed. Nothing you've said has demonstrated otherwise. It was not a necessary war, or --- as people seem to like to say now, contrary to how it was portrayed at the time --- it was "a war of choice". If you feel that it was nevertheless the right thing to do on that account, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point (or maybe disagree to disagree if you don't agree to disagree). You're 100% wrong but, hey, you think I'm 100% wrong also.

I'm not sure the war was absolutely necessary, but if you look at the history of the Iraqi regime and where it was heading. The prospect of a world with an Iraq ruled by Saddam now beyond UN sanctions is a chilling one. I can't remember the movie, but the gangster's line was something like "If we can survive this we'll be back in business, bigger than ever". So, the down side of crushing the last bastion of Pan-Arabism, is that if fueled a little more Pan-Islamicism. Saddam decided to play the ultimate game of "chicken", only it was like he was driving a Mini into a freight train. No one decided to get out of the others way, so they collided. Hopefully the stupid Mini won't derail us.

(a ) You might argue that there was some necessity in an immediate invasion, because the Bush administration had to strike while the iron was hot in the post-9/11 climate of fear and anger in the US. If they waited too long for the shock to wear off, then the American people would return to their politically somnolent ways, and it would no longer be possible to persuade them to support the starting of a dubious war by the US. Probably, there's a lot of truth to this. (Plus, Bush's approval ratings got a significant bump, as always happens when any country goes to war.)

The necessity was more to contain the already eroded sanctions program, and to prevent Saddam from funneling smuggling money into rebuilding his offensive military capabilities and funding more international terrorism.

(b ) You seem remarkably forgiving of a government that presents a fraudulent case for war when its views happen to correspond to your own.

I never needed the litmus test of direct linkage to Al Queda, or a smoking ruin of a nuclear bombing to convince me that the Iraq regime was a danger. As for justification, the violation of the cease fire agreement was sufficient grounds to return to war. What I object is not the war (it was the easy part), but the aftermath.

I don't have any better answers than anyone else about how the US and the international community should best respond to the human rights violations, atrocities, and genocides throughout the world (Darfur, Burma, Zimbabwe, just to mention a few of the current ones). But however that's done, it has to be done with some form of international cooperation (however poorly that works sometimes) and with honesty.

And... When that happens... We'll be ice skating in hell.