The Iraq War retrospective Thread

[Occhidiangela]

First, that makes so very little sense. Like Korea, the 1991 war was only "ongoing" in the strict diplomatic sense that there was no peace treaty. The actual war part of the 1991 war ended a decade before 2003, and it's silly to pretend otherwise.

As Patton said to the press . . .

Jester, understanding has been in front of you for nearly five years. It's in my sig.

In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--

War is a political act of force. Are we getting anywhere?

Second, if you're going to go with 2003 being a continuation of 1991, then it was the UN's business to "continue" the war, or let it drop. The US no more gets to make this decision than any other random nation.

Until you grasp that politics is about power, and not about ideology, I can't help you. The excuse of 12 years of non action by the UN, collectively, is one of the reasons given for someone "doing something" rather than just "standing there." Enough people bought it to make it politically possible, see above, war is a political act, to include an interesting collection of NATO allies.

How soon they forget.

Yes. And that was everyone doing what they were supposed to: the UN was deciding what happens with its own ceasefire, declaring sanctions, just as it has every right to do

The UN decides nothing, typically, but to have tea and wring its hands. When a power decides to do something, then things happen. Note who is on the UNSC. Mostly, Powers. The UN is a tool, at best. It was so designed.

And putting your faith in the US is turning out to be a real winner. Ask the Iraqis.

You note that they didn't have a choice in that matter, so try again, will you please, for an analogy that fits?

What they, the people living in Iraq, had a choice in was fighting in a civil war once Saddam's power was broken.

That, they chose to do once the opportunity was presented. So like Yugoslavia -- but in Arabic. We discussed the risk of that before the war, on this forum, as a troubling possible outcome of imposing democracy at the point of bayonet.

I don't believe the UN is some super awesome "special" institution that wins every fight, walks on water, and dispenses holy justice from its fingertips. It is, however, the highest body of international law in the world.

That is a falsehood.

Care to try again?

If you cannot grasp what the UN actually is, then you cannot pretend to figure out what it can and can't, will or won't, be able to do. It is a once exclusive club that now lets pretty much anyone in, but some members are more equal than others.

It's at best Orwellian soup. Citations of "law" are pretense for action and power plays.

Well, it would hardly be a conspiracy on the Israeli end; they've said they'd do it. Ditto the Iranians. For the rest, I have no idea. I'm not making a serious prediction here, more a tongue-in-cheek world's-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket comment.

Indeed it is, in a handbasket. Invest in asbestos futures.

Occhi