Yet another religious cult raided

[kandrathe]

Pete, you are just on purpose not understanding Jim for the sake of argument now. Abuse in a cult that happens according to the 'laws' of this cult is something completely different than an individual case of abuse in a city like NY. Jim pointed at this and he is right to say that by removing the children from this cult very very likely a lot of abuse has been prevented. In a case like this you don't want to start number juggling. Breaking down every door in NY city will do more harm than it will do good. Because you are right in that sense that we have our civil rights so we don't do these kind of actions. The case we are discussing about now is completely different though.

Why is it nonsense to equate the action in New York as an unfair violation of rights, since it is millions of individuals as opposed to YFZ ranch which is maybe around 1000 citizens? If you can treat all 1000 as guilty before proven innocent, then wouldn't you be able to do that for one million or 200 million? You are essentially saying "All those FLDS people are all mindless zombies who have no independent thoughts, no free will, and so we can invalidate their personal rights and lump them all together and treat them as a group".

It comes down to three questions in my mind. 1) Is there evidence for each and every child of abuse? 2) Are BOTH parents abusers? and 3) Does a belief system, or set of beliefs, (which in this case seems to apply to marriageable age) allow the State to remove a child from parents to protect the child from your backward beliefs?

So, my answers are; 1) I don't believe the CPS has evidence of abuse for ALL the children, only some and we are not sure how many even that is. It might be 2 out 465 or 31 of 465, or higher if more allegations are fished up here over time. 2) Depends on your definition I guess, if the CPS case is that the mothers are complicit in allowing the abuse of their children. 3) I think this is where the State has no authority. If we allow the state to regulate thoughts, then we are in huge trouble.

So, is it possible there is a child in custody whose parents committed no crime here? I'd say yes, no evidence, other than the call which we now know was fraudulent, was presented before the action was taken and that is the travesty of justice in this case.