Yet another religious cult raided

[kandrathe]

See my reply to Occhi and Tal, I didn't tar all Americans with my brush. If I would have I wouldn't have to resort to calling names (redneck... (last time I will use it)) but I would just use the word Americans.

Ok, back to the high road... I'm ignoring the last 15 or so posts. We can discuss cultural and national arrogance, Cuba issues, and Columbia another time.

Eppie, I think you still miss the nuance of my discussion. I don't support anyone having sexual relations with under-aged girls, even when its under-aged boys. Ok, got that? I fully support the law on this.

What is the age of adulthood? It is a good philosophical question, and one we have debated and changed in our societies in the last 30 years. The trend is to move it higher, and then you and I might wonder how high is too high. Would you support 25 or 30 as the age of adulthood? I've seen (and participated in...:)) lots of anecdotal evidence to indicate the people in their 20's are too immature to handle many of life's complications. Can you see this as a political tool to limit the rights of citizens?

I believe I have clearly called into question the collision of modern American/World culture with an antiquated culture (FLDS) that has existed (under persecution for its beliefs in Polygamy, Paternalism and young marriages) for over one hundred years since its inception with the teachings of Joseph Smith Jr. and carried out west by Brigham Young. This then gets into the nature of RELIGIOUS freedom. There is a conflict with current law and FLDS religious teaching and practices. The mainstream LDS church decided, when Utah became a state, to alter their stance and "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" in other words submit to the laws of the land. This splinter group decided to remain true to their faith, and have struggled with authorities off and on since then. Some fled to Mexico, some fled to Canada, and some tried to hide in the hinterlands of rural America. Under what they felt was persecution by Utah, and Arizona they moved to Texas where the laws were friendlier to their practices. Then they changed the laws.

I ask you (all, not just eppie) again, should the US government, or the state governments destroy this sect? Should they give all the adults lengthy prison terms, and farm out all the children to adoption? Then in the future, wherever and whenever anyone is suspected of being in FLDS should the government also rush in, arrest everyone in the home, and seize all the kids? Do you support that as a valid response from government? Can the government declare FLDS an outlawed religion? Does that violate the 1st amendment?

In my mind, the idea of the government rushing in and destroying a family and a home is chilling. The idea of a government deciding which beliefs are valid and invalid also gives me pause. I do believe that Christian theology is clear that citizens are subject to the laws of their state, and if they don't like it they should leave. Yes, these are unusual circumstances, and weird wacko people by our standards, but at some point it may become easier and easier for the government to do to other less wacko groups. Then, consider how people live on reservations (I cited before, "one in every four girls and one in every seven boys will be a victims of sexual abuse in Indian Country") , in barrios, in government housing projects. Are there other groups that maintain a culture that perpetuates impregnating underage girls? This is the Texas CPS case, that it is the culture of belief in FLDS traditions that makes it necessary to remove ALL the children to end this belief. I agree that abuse (sexual and physical) needs to stop wherever it happens, but using the keen edge of law should not be the only method to change practices which the majority culture finds abominable.

Can you see my questions as valid checks on the violations of liberties? I think it is a valid concern to want to protect all liberty for Native American parents, for urban Hispanic parents, for Urban Black parents, and yes, even for FLDS parents as distasteful as that is for our society. I've spoken before about the tyranny of the majority, which in this case leaves only the courts to step in to protect them for this minority. I think this legal journey has only begun for them.

Edit; Another case that caught my eye while doing research. Underage Marriage in Yemen. So, consider Sharia Law, and here is a potential precedent for allowing Islamic Law to be practiced in the US Native American Courts: Precedent for an Islamic arbitral system Islam is another religious system that practices Polygyny, Paternalism, and arranged under aged marriages.