Yet another religious cult raided

[--Pete]

Hi,

Pete, you are just on purpose not understanding Jim for the sake of argument now.

No, I understand him perfectly. To him, the law is fine, but totally ignorable as long as one of HIS pet peeves is concerned. Then, to hell with the law -- kill the blue monkey.

Abuse in a cult that happens according to the 'laws' of this cult is something completely different than an individual case of abuse in a city like NY. Jim pointed at this and he is right to say that by removing the children from this cult very very likely a lot of abuse has been prevented. In a case like this you don't want to start number juggling.

Nope, you don't want to number juggle. Just define 'abuse' to be whatever turns you off, and re-define 'child' to whatever age is convenient to turn your prejudices into law and, bingo, you're home free. Anything that doesn't meet your narrow definition of 'moral' can then be persecuted at will. Reminds me of "Forgive him, for he believes that the customs of his tribe are the laws of nature." (George Bernard Shaw).

Breaking down every door in NY city will do more harm than it will do good. Because you are right in that sense that we have our civil rights so we don't do these kind of actions. The case we are discussing about now is completely different though.

Different how? Because *you* are offended by polygyny? Because teens having sex in that cult is somehow wrong, but teens having sex outside it (and there is either a lot of that going on or virgin births are damn common) is OK? How is it different? What about it justifies a raid based on false information? The falsity of which could have easily been determined by caller ID. What about it justifies the use of evidence that was illegally obtained in that search to justify that search? What about it justifies *assuming* that everyone was abused on the basis of the claim on the part of the authorities of some abuse?

Different? The only difference I see is that a bunch of self-righteous bigots finally got a flimsy excuse to take an action they'd been dreaming of for years. Yeah, that cult is unattractive. And some of its practices are against some (morality based and archaic) laws. But if ugliness is sufficient to exclude one from the protection of the law, then the old, the fat, and the infirm are truly damned.

Perhaps in Europe, with its history of Star Chambers, Inquisitions, Bills of Attainder, divine right of kings, law by force or by whim, and other such repulsive nonsense, the actions of the Texas authorities could be stomached. But here, in a nation founded specifically to divorce us from the whim of the rulers and of the mob, such actions should give rise to an outcry that would pierce the eardrums of the Texas CPS. That it hasn't, that it is accepted, even acclaimed, indicates a degeneration in our national fabric. We are becoming all too willing to trade our principles for the illusion of security or the support of our prejudices. We are becoming Europeans, and that stinks.

--Pete