Socialized Health Care in the USA
#4
I don't think any of this is a convincing argument against insurance being priced at a market rate, perhaps slightly adjusted for transaction costs. Insurers, providers, employers, unions and individuals, if they are rational, are all bargaining against one another, and none has an incentive to take less than they can get, or offer more than they can get away with.

Employers look at their tax situation, the wages they have to pay out, and the benefits package they offer, and adjust their collective bargaining accordingly. Unions do the same. This should not alter the price of health care more than a small amount, since nobody has market power; there are a lot of insurers, a lot of employers, and a lot of unions, and therefore nobody has a particularily credible threat.

Government action works differently, but to me, that's one of the more convincing arguments for going to a single-payer system, even one with an opt-out, rather than attempting a hybridized system. Most such hybrids simply end up accumulating rents for some company or another, because government power distorts the market. Either get rid of the government element (surely your solution) or get rid of the market (mine).

-Jester
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Messages In This Thread
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-23-2009, 04:39 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-23-2009, 05:08 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-23-2009, 05:59 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-23-2009, 06:34 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 06-23-2009, 09:42 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Ashock - 06-23-2009, 10:14 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-24-2009, 05:07 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-24-2009, 05:44 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-24-2009, 10:07 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Crusader - 06-24-2009, 12:14 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-24-2009, 04:13 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by ShadowHM - 06-24-2009, 08:25 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by DeeBye - 06-24-2009, 09:43 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-24-2009, 11:46 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by DeeBye - 06-25-2009, 12:18 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-25-2009, 04:43 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Skandranon - 06-25-2009, 01:38 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Ashock - 06-25-2009, 03:35 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-25-2009, 03:51 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-25-2009, 03:57 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Ashock - 06-25-2009, 05:08 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Concillian - 06-25-2009, 07:44 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-25-2009, 08:43 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-25-2009, 08:46 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Lissa - 06-25-2009, 08:53 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-25-2009, 08:53 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-25-2009, 08:55 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by LochnarITB - 06-25-2009, 09:06 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-25-2009, 09:07 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-25-2009, 09:08 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-25-2009, 09:11 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-25-2009, 09:13 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-25-2009, 09:19 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-25-2009, 09:20 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-25-2009, 09:22 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-25-2009, 09:33 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-25-2009, 10:16 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Zenda - 06-26-2009, 01:50 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 06-26-2009, 01:57 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-26-2009, 03:07 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-26-2009, 03:53 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-26-2009, 04:03 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-26-2009, 04:07 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 06-26-2009, 08:58 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-26-2009, 11:05 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-27-2009, 12:29 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-27-2009, 07:36 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-27-2009, 01:19 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-27-2009, 11:24 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-28-2009, 12:03 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-28-2009, 02:41 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 06-28-2009, 03:28 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-28-2009, 03:55 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Concillian - 06-28-2009, 04:51 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-28-2009, 01:26 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-28-2009, 01:48 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-28-2009, 05:28 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-28-2009, 06:12 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 06-28-2009, 06:29 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-28-2009, 06:45 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 06-29-2009, 12:52 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 06-29-2009, 01:12 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 06-29-2009, 04:01 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-01-2009, 03:19 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-01-2009, 08:15 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-01-2009, 09:36 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by ShadowHM - 07-01-2009, 11:01 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-02-2009, 01:18 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-02-2009, 02:04 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-02-2009, 04:04 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-02-2009, 02:44 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-02-2009, 04:18 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-02-2009, 04:35 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-02-2009, 06:51 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-02-2009, 08:01 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-02-2009, 08:58 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-02-2009, 09:09 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-02-2009, 09:42 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-02-2009, 10:07 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-02-2009, 10:23 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-02-2009, 10:28 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-02-2009, 10:41 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-02-2009, 11:26 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-02-2009, 11:40 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-03-2009, 12:02 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-03-2009, 12:09 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-03-2009, 12:29 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-03-2009, 12:51 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-03-2009, 02:06 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Alram - 07-03-2009, 05:18 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by eppie - 07-03-2009, 07:46 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-03-2009, 04:20 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-03-2009, 05:10 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-03-2009, 05:29 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-03-2009, 05:49 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Zenda - 07-03-2009, 07:30 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Zenda - 07-04-2009, 01:26 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-04-2009, 02:04 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by eppie - 07-04-2009, 08:41 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Zenda - 07-04-2009, 12:56 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-04-2009, 05:04 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-04-2009, 06:13 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by eppie - 07-04-2009, 07:21 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-04-2009, 10:19 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-04-2009, 10:28 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-06-2009, 02:16 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by eppie - 07-06-2009, 08:47 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Zenda - 07-06-2009, 11:35 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Zenda - 07-06-2009, 02:00 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by eppie - 07-06-2009, 02:50 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-06-2009, 03:14 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-06-2009, 03:23 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-06-2009, 03:53 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-06-2009, 04:33 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-06-2009, 05:37 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-06-2009, 05:41 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-06-2009, 06:29 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-06-2009, 06:48 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Zenda - 07-06-2009, 07:15 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Zenda - 07-06-2009, 08:06 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-06-2009, 08:14 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-06-2009, 08:26 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-06-2009, 08:42 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-06-2009, 11:02 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-06-2009, 11:35 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-06-2009, 11:59 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by eppie - 07-07-2009, 08:15 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Zenda - 07-07-2009, 03:36 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-07-2009, 08:49 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-07-2009, 09:04 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-07-2009, 09:24 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-07-2009, 10:16 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-08-2009, 02:07 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-08-2009, 02:12 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-08-2009, 02:38 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by eppie - 07-08-2009, 01:08 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-08-2009, 03:37 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 07-08-2009, 05:01 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-08-2009, 06:24 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-23-2009, 05:17 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Alram - 07-26-2009, 03:08 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by DeeBye - 07-27-2009, 03:38 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-27-2009, 04:46 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 07-27-2009, 05:19 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by DeeBye - 07-27-2009, 02:56 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Zenda - 07-27-2009, 09:43 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 07-27-2009, 10:11 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-16-2009, 04:50 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-17-2009, 01:52 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-17-2009, 10:54 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-17-2009, 11:16 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-18-2009, 03:47 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-18-2009, 09:36 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-19-2009, 01:01 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-19-2009, 09:51 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-19-2009, 11:57 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-19-2009, 01:18 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-19-2009, 06:03 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Skandranon - 08-19-2009, 07:37 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Kevin - 08-19-2009, 07:55 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Delc - 08-19-2009, 08:47 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Kevin - 08-19-2009, 08:54 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-20-2009, 02:48 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-20-2009, 03:42 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-20-2009, 03:50 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-20-2009, 11:59 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-20-2009, 01:33 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Delc - 08-20-2009, 03:26 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-20-2009, 04:58 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-20-2009, 05:01 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Kevin - 08-20-2009, 05:30 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-20-2009, 06:05 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-20-2009, 07:18 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-20-2009, 10:50 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Skandranon - 08-20-2009, 10:51 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-20-2009, 11:06 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-20-2009, 11:07 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-20-2009, 11:24 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-20-2009, 11:37 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-20-2009, 11:40 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-21-2009, 12:15 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-21-2009, 12:50 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Thecla - 08-21-2009, 12:57 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Skandranon - 08-21-2009, 02:13 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-21-2009, 02:23 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-21-2009, 05:27 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-21-2009, 05:37 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-21-2009, 05:41 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Thecla - 08-21-2009, 07:23 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-21-2009, 12:18 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-21-2009, 12:19 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-21-2009, 12:23 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-21-2009, 12:29 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-21-2009, 09:04 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-21-2009, 09:17 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-21-2009, 11:02 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-21-2009, 11:06 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-21-2009, 11:46 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by DeeBye - 08-22-2009, 01:33 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-22-2009, 01:43 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by DeeBye - 08-22-2009, 04:00 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-22-2009, 09:21 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Skandranon - 08-22-2009, 09:37 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-22-2009, 09:42 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-22-2009, 11:27 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-22-2009, 02:31 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-22-2009, 05:33 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Skandranon - 08-23-2009, 12:48 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-23-2009, 03:04 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by DeeBye - 08-23-2009, 04:30 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-23-2009, 02:00 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-23-2009, 02:15 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by DeeBye - 08-24-2009, 05:34 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-24-2009, 06:03 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-25-2009, 12:15 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Delc - 08-25-2009, 04:04 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-25-2009, 05:02 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by DeeBye - 08-25-2009, 05:37 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-25-2009, 05:07 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-25-2009, 08:01 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-25-2009, 10:37 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Taem - 08-25-2009, 10:59 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-25-2009, 11:16 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-25-2009, 11:23 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-25-2009, 11:26 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-25-2009, 11:31 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-25-2009, 11:47 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-26-2009, 02:22 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Taem - 08-26-2009, 02:35 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-26-2009, 02:50 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-26-2009, 09:16 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-26-2009, 09:17 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-26-2009, 09:39 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-26-2009, 12:12 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-26-2009, 12:15 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by eppie - 08-26-2009, 01:50 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-26-2009, 05:10 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-26-2009, 08:17 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-26-2009, 08:30 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-27-2009, 03:19 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by DeeBye - 08-27-2009, 05:43 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by NuurAbSaal - 08-27-2009, 07:26 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-27-2009, 07:31 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-27-2009, 06:15 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by eppie - 08-27-2009, 06:31 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-27-2009, 06:52 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by eppie - 08-27-2009, 07:09 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-27-2009, 11:43 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-28-2009, 12:15 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Thecla - 08-28-2009, 12:42 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-28-2009, 01:19 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-28-2009, 03:40 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-28-2009, 04:41 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by eppie - 08-28-2009, 08:48 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-28-2009, 12:13 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-28-2009, 12:23 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-28-2009, 02:05 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by eppie - 08-28-2009, 04:52 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-28-2009, 10:53 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-28-2009, 11:22 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-29-2009, 12:35 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-29-2009, 03:58 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by eppie - 08-29-2009, 07:32 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-29-2009, 11:13 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by eppie - 08-29-2009, 11:43 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-29-2009, 03:59 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-29-2009, 04:17 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-29-2009, 04:42 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Thecla - 08-29-2009, 07:57 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by --Pete - 08-29-2009, 08:19 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Jester - 08-29-2009, 09:31 PM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Taem - 08-30-2009, 02:31 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by kandrathe - 08-30-2009, 02:35 AM
Socialized Health Care in the USA - by Vandiablo - 08-30-2009, 07:27 AM

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