08-26-2004, 01:49 PM
Hi,
The thing is, slavery is just plain wrong.
That's a social and moral point of view. At different times, different societies had differing forms of slavery and everybody in those societies accepted it and would have laughed at you for thinking otherwise. Hell, there are even rules and regulations for the treatment of slaves in the Bible and yet it was various Christian groups (the Quakers come to mind) who were the most outspoken and influential in the abolitionist movement.
Even "having your neighbor for dinner" has had meanings that were accepted and cherished by some which are revolting to most today. Dr. Hannibal Lecter's behavior would have raised few eyebrows amongst the Maori of a century ago (although narrow minded revisionists who cannot comprehend any outlook but their own are actively trying to deny this).
"Just plain wrong" is very much in the eyes of the beholder. It is a knee-jerk reaction that substitutes for rational though. Almost anything you might think "just plain wrong" was once considered fitting and proper by some group somewhere. So, think it out a little more deeply, and realize why you think something is wrong under the assumptions you've made. And realize too what those assumptions are and why you made them. Usually, if you are honest, you will realize that your outlook is driven by the society you live in and that, in turn, is driven by the dominant religion of that society.
Get all that organized religion out of government.
A wonderful concept. Shall we start with the seven day week? And especially the weekend? Nature has handed us three natural units of time, the day, the lunar month, and the year. Unfortunately, they are mutually incommensurable. So how we divide them up is strictly up to us. And the grouping of days into weeks with a Sabbath at the end of each is strictly a Judaic thing (I think, although they may have stolen it from the Babylonians and 'retrofitted' a religious fable onto a practical fact). The addition of a second day off (Sunday) which ends up giving us the weekend is thanks to that Jewish splinter group, the Christians. So, since that is all "organized religion", let's throw it all out. No more weekend, no more Friday evening pizza and beer, no more Monday night football.
Of course, what we would replace it with isn't clear since almost every usable division of the year has been used by some religion or another. Perhaps we could re-institute the calends and ides, since priests of Jupiter are pretty much an extinct species and not much of anyone would notice that we've reverted to yet an older religion's observances. And we would have a mass public BBQ every fifteen days or so, good for everyone but the sacrificial bulls.
OK, satiric sarcasm off. The reason for that little inanity was to show how basic the religious influence is in our milieu. A thousand years of Christian domination of Europe has made many, many concepts that originated in religion into customs that we blindly accept. Some of them even make sense or, at worst, are morally and practically neutral.
While "the wall of separation between church and state" is neither as high nor as thick as an agnostic/atheist such as myself would want it, it has grown over the years. That the Enlightenment gave birth to such a concept (consider Pascal and his famous wager and what that says about his unquestioning acceptance of religion, specifically Catholicism) at all is a tribute to their ability to think outside the box. And while many bemoan the fact that it is not perfect (while others bemoan that it exists at all), it is good that haste is being made slowly to insure not throwing out the . . .
(Enough cliches in one paragraph for you?)
--Pete
The thing is, slavery is just plain wrong.
That's a social and moral point of view. At different times, different societies had differing forms of slavery and everybody in those societies accepted it and would have laughed at you for thinking otherwise. Hell, there are even rules and regulations for the treatment of slaves in the Bible and yet it was various Christian groups (the Quakers come to mind) who were the most outspoken and influential in the abolitionist movement.
Even "having your neighbor for dinner" has had meanings that were accepted and cherished by some which are revolting to most today. Dr. Hannibal Lecter's behavior would have raised few eyebrows amongst the Maori of a century ago (although narrow minded revisionists who cannot comprehend any outlook but their own are actively trying to deny this).
"Just plain wrong" is very much in the eyes of the beholder. It is a knee-jerk reaction that substitutes for rational though. Almost anything you might think "just plain wrong" was once considered fitting and proper by some group somewhere. So, think it out a little more deeply, and realize why you think something is wrong under the assumptions you've made. And realize too what those assumptions are and why you made them. Usually, if you are honest, you will realize that your outlook is driven by the society you live in and that, in turn, is driven by the dominant religion of that society.
Get all that organized religion out of government.
A wonderful concept. Shall we start with the seven day week? And especially the weekend? Nature has handed us three natural units of time, the day, the lunar month, and the year. Unfortunately, they are mutually incommensurable. So how we divide them up is strictly up to us. And the grouping of days into weeks with a Sabbath at the end of each is strictly a Judaic thing (I think, although they may have stolen it from the Babylonians and 'retrofitted' a religious fable onto a practical fact). The addition of a second day off (Sunday) which ends up giving us the weekend is thanks to that Jewish splinter group, the Christians. So, since that is all "organized religion", let's throw it all out. No more weekend, no more Friday evening pizza and beer, no more Monday night football.
Of course, what we would replace it with isn't clear since almost every usable division of the year has been used by some religion or another. Perhaps we could re-institute the calends and ides, since priests of Jupiter are pretty much an extinct species and not much of anyone would notice that we've reverted to yet an older religion's observances. And we would have a mass public BBQ every fifteen days or so, good for everyone but the sacrificial bulls.
OK, satiric sarcasm off. The reason for that little inanity was to show how basic the religious influence is in our milieu. A thousand years of Christian domination of Europe has made many, many concepts that originated in religion into customs that we blindly accept. Some of them even make sense or, at worst, are morally and practically neutral.
While "the wall of separation between church and state" is neither as high nor as thick as an agnostic/atheist such as myself would want it, it has grown over the years. That the Enlightenment gave birth to such a concept (consider Pascal and his famous wager and what that says about his unquestioning acceptance of religion, specifically Catholicism) at all is a tribute to their ability to think outside the box. And while many bemoan the fact that it is not perfect (while others bemoan that it exists at all), it is good that haste is being made slowly to insure not throwing out the . . .
(Enough cliches in one paragraph for you?)
--Pete
How big was the aquarium in Noah's ark?