08-28-2004, 04:47 AM
(This post was last modified: 08-28-2004, 04:49 AM by Occhidiangela.)
Eh. The technology became practical, therefore useful. Slavery still exists in America in a way.
Neither sanctioned nor legal. Rape still exists in America today. Neither sanctioned nor legal. Murder still exists in American today, neither sanctioned nor legal. Pedophilia still exists in America today, neither sanctioned nor legal. Now, the efforts spent at enforcement and avoidance of these laws are certainly subjects worthy of public comment and concern: they are violations of the laws of our nation.
"Slavery still exists" That's an interesting Humpty Dumpty, with an emotional trigger inserted due to the history or slavery and its legacy in today's social environment. A troll, if you will, used by many reporters to get people's attention. :P
Using that structure, the sweatshops of the industrial age were also slavery, even though the workers were paid a wage, right? Well, there is a term used by some economists and sociologists called "wage slavery" but that is again the use of an emotionally charged term to illustrate a social imbalance.
An abusive labor practice is not the same thing as sanctioned and legal slavery, which is what I was referring to. Marx and other thinkers would agree with you, as would many good union members in long standing in the Teamsters, that abusive labor practices require a social rebalancing for a healthy society. For that matter, I agree. For all their warts, unions grew for a good reason: to counteract the exploitation of labor in an attempt to strike a "better" was required for a better social balance.
Since slavery is illegal, your slide in comment confuses the discussion on slavery, as a societal norm and legal activity, with a general coercion of another person to labor for your benefit. The fact that unethical turds exploit migrant and illegal labor is a long standing social imperfection, however, it is not slavery as I was discussing it.
As to closing the borders with Mexico, what would be the point of that? I share your distaste for that, for perhaps different reasons.
The idea I endorse is to enforce the agreed laws, limits, treaties, and statues, or by Constitutional process, change them. The complete avoidance of responsibility for the defense and maintenance of our borders (aided and abetted by many a rich Texan hiring illegal aliens for his yardwork while carping about "them wetbacks" ***grrrrrrr*** some of my neighbors irritate me back home) is hardly utile if they create a complete restriction to lawful trade and lawful travel and lawful immigration.
Are you familiar with "The Iron Law of Wages?" :D
Occhi
Neither sanctioned nor legal. Rape still exists in America today. Neither sanctioned nor legal. Murder still exists in American today, neither sanctioned nor legal. Pedophilia still exists in America today, neither sanctioned nor legal. Now, the efforts spent at enforcement and avoidance of these laws are certainly subjects worthy of public comment and concern: they are violations of the laws of our nation.
"Slavery still exists" That's an interesting Humpty Dumpty, with an emotional trigger inserted due to the history or slavery and its legacy in today's social environment. A troll, if you will, used by many reporters to get people's attention. :P
Using that structure, the sweatshops of the industrial age were also slavery, even though the workers were paid a wage, right? Well, there is a term used by some economists and sociologists called "wage slavery" but that is again the use of an emotionally charged term to illustrate a social imbalance.
An abusive labor practice is not the same thing as sanctioned and legal slavery, which is what I was referring to. Marx and other thinkers would agree with you, as would many good union members in long standing in the Teamsters, that abusive labor practices require a social rebalancing for a healthy society. For that matter, I agree. For all their warts, unions grew for a good reason: to counteract the exploitation of labor in an attempt to strike a "better" was required for a better social balance.
Since slavery is illegal, your slide in comment confuses the discussion on slavery, as a societal norm and legal activity, with a general coercion of another person to labor for your benefit. The fact that unethical turds exploit migrant and illegal labor is a long standing social imperfection, however, it is not slavery as I was discussing it.
As to closing the borders with Mexico, what would be the point of that? I share your distaste for that, for perhaps different reasons.
The idea I endorse is to enforce the agreed laws, limits, treaties, and statues, or by Constitutional process, change them. The complete avoidance of responsibility for the defense and maintenance of our borders (aided and abetted by many a rich Texan hiring illegal aliens for his yardwork while carping about "them wetbacks" ***grrrrrrr*** some of my neighbors irritate me back home) is hardly utile if they create a complete restriction to lawful trade and lawful travel and lawful immigration.
Quote:I have a problem with anyone who treats anyone else as property or a cheap resource. And, like LoG and his incest argument, I have no axioms or anecdotes to back it up properly. (ObiWan, the way you make an argument is to state your opinion then find facts to back up your opinion. "Just plain wrong" does neither, and Pete, Lemming, and Occhi called me on it. )
Are you familiar with "The Iron Law of Wages?" :D
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete