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Dueling and other diferences abroad
09-09-2003, 08:15 PM
Post: #1
Dueling and other diferences abroad
Hi, I'm new here... As you can see in the signature I'm a Polish d1 maniac ;> The thing that I like most except for the people in d1 are duels, especially the WvW ones ;) I was wondering if you could tell me how do you play duels in your countries, what rules have you got, what items do you use, what tactics do you know, etc. and some information about d1 players in your countries like are the many cheaters? do many legit players reach the 50th lvl? are there any "old schools", who play d1 from the beginning? Do you have many clans and battle.net news pages and stuff like that? I can write some information about "POL-1" if you are interested :)

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09-09-2003, 09:38 PM
Post: #2
Dueling and other diferences abroad
Quote:I was wondering if you could tell me how do you play duels in your countries, what rules have you got, what items do you use, what tactics do you know, etc.

I imagine "ideal" dueling items don't vary much from country to country; it's all the same game.

Quote:and some information about d1 players in your countries like are the many cheaters?

It's probably more prudent to ask whether there are many cheaters on other servers. I don't know that cheater density varies much between servers. I imagine there're enough cheaters everywhere to make public gaming pointless.

Quote:do many legit players reach the 50th lvl?

Fewer do than don't.

Quote:are there any "old schools", who play d1 from the beginning?

Very few who've had it since release still regularly play. A good number of those that don't play still read the forum, though.

Quote:Do you have many clans and battle.net news pages and stuff like that?

Clans? A few people might be in one, but it's far from the rule.

I don't know what sort of "battle.net news pages" you're asking about. Did any of us make the Bnet news page? Dunno. Never read it.

[o: *LEMMING* :o]
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09-09-2003, 10:12 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2003 10:14 PM by kempes.KGB..)
Post: #3
Dueling and other diferences abroad
Quote:I imagine "ideal" dueling items don't vary much from country to country; it's all the same game.

heh, i don't think so ;p I when i played with some people form spain, italy, sweden, france and few other countries i saw many really werid things :P Warriors running with Sparkling Mails, Shaefer's Hammers and other items with lighting dmg. :blink: :D One sorceror from sweden started attacking me with chain lighting :lol: :lol: :lol:

Quote:I don't know what sort of "battle.net news pages" you're asking about. Did any of us make the Bnet news page? Dunno. Never read it.

I can see that d1 is going to die soon abroad while in Poland it has rebirth ;) The news pages... I think the best way to explain is http://realm.pl/~diabloday It provides information about polish clans, clan wars, tournaments, new programs connected with d1, information about some really annoying cheaters and generally anything connected with d1. It is in polish but i think you will get the idea, you will se the clan list when you click on "Klany" and so on. We have got 30 clans... and hordes of people playing ;)

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09-10-2003, 12:10 AM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2003 12:11 AM by LemmingofGlory.)
Post: #4
Dueling and other diferences abroad
Quote:Warriors running with Sparkling Mails, Shaefer's Hammers and other items with lighting dmg.

Elemental damage is used when one player can't hit the other one.

Quote:I can see that d1 is going to die soon abroad

That's an awfully sure statement. Playerbase has been small for years now. That doesn't mean it'll disappear.

Quote:The news pages... I think the best way to explain is http://realm.pl/~diabloday It provides information about polish clans, clan wars, tournaments, new programs connected with d1, information about some really annoying cheaters and generally anything connected with d1.

Oh, you mean if we keep up to date on our nonsense news. No, we don't do that. Which clan hates who, which clan has the biggest trainers, which cheaters cause the most trouble -- we never bothered with that. We knew long ago the best games were private games. There's never been any need to discuss the goings-on of silly public games, except in occasional cheater mockery.

Game discoveries and other useful game knowledge, otoh, we were all over. Most of it's been covered now, is all.

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09-10-2003, 02:43 PM
Post: #5
Dueling and other diferences abroad
Quote:Elemental damage is used when one player can't hit the other one.

yep, thats how we used to play a few years ago :P i don't know if you know (;p) but you cannot block with your when you are moving... and you have to move, come to another player to damage him with lighting (elemental) dmg. So there is nothing easier than killing a person with elemental dmg :P We evoluated and begun playing without elemental dmg. It looks more or less like this: We start a duel. warriors try to hit each other when the second one is moving. When they "have contact" they hit each other 4-5 times (in case that lag will teleport the opponent in a different place) and then one of the warriors starts swinging behind which is the sign of "break" - the other person can go away without getting hit in the back. One person goes away, than the second one and they continiue... and so on ;P
sounds kind of strange but it's more interesting and requires skills, not good equip and lots of luck like playing with elemental dmg...
If you play with elemental dmg the only thing that counts is luck - you keep hitting and shaefer or other weapon calculates the 1-50 or 2-20 (etc.) dmg, and the one with more luck and hp wins :P it's equally stupid to hitting each other in the shields until one looses durability LOL :lol: ;p
looks like you are hell back in dueling techniques :P you probably don't even know that it is possible to generate and control (partialy) the lag between players... :D :lol:
and i bet that where you come from warriors cannot kill mages :lol:

Quote:That's an awfully sure statement. Playerbase has been small for years now. That doesn't mean it'll disappear.

In poland we have about 20 people on the channel all the time... and at weekend evenings very often there are 40 people on POL-1 and some more on POL-2 :) But other channels... ITA-1 5-10 people RUS-1 0-3 people GBR-1 sometimes even 10 people but 8/10 are form d2x :P

Quote:Oh, you mean if we keep up to date on our nonsense news. No, we don't do that. Which clan hates who, which clan has the biggest trainers, which cheaters cause the most trouble -- we never bothered with that. We knew long ago the best games were private games. There's never been any need to discuss the goings-on of silly public games, except in occasional cheater mockery.

I think you didn't get the point :P Whatever :P

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09-10-2003, 04:03 PM
Post: #6
Dueling and other diferences abroad
on the east server in channel diablo x, we have a very healthy dueling group, about 15 to 20 regulars who love to duel, several old schoolers who have been playing since the game was released, most notable is astra-lynn one of our best duelers
our style is diffrent then the european style, we use 8 pots and magic, not the euro no magic no pot duels, its highly skill intensive and the best duels can last up to 30 min. so please feel free to stop by anytime, the eastern peek time for duelers is 9pm est to 12am est
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09-10-2003, 06:48 PM
Post: #7
Dueling and other diferences abroad
>but you cannot block with your when you are moving...

The community knew this many years ago.

>and you have to move, come to another player to damage him with lighting (elemental) dmg.

You must either move into range or make the other player move into range in order to be able to hit with any melee attack, elemental damage is no different.

The only "duels" I like are games of laser tag. Characters of the same class (could be varied as long as everyone agrees) pick a cleared dungeon level to fight on. The whole level may be used as the battle ground. Zero potions, Zero resists, and the only attack permitted is blood star. Winner takes all.

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09-10-2003, 07:38 PM
Post: #8
Dueling and other diferences abroad
kempes.KGB.,Sep 10 2003, 04:34 PM Wrote:looks like you are hell back in dueling techniques :P you probably don't even know that it is possible to generate and control (partialy) the lag between players... :D :lol: and i bet that where you come from warriors cannot kill mages  :lol:
omg u must r00lz 2 beat a sorceror in a dule!!! i bet ur the best dueler in europe server! :D :ph34r: B) B) :lol: :P

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09-10-2003, 08:48 PM
Post: #9
Dueling and other diferences abroad
Quote:looks like you are hell back in dueling techniques  you probably don't even know that it is possible to generate and control (partialy) the lag between players...   and i bet that where you come from warriors cannot kill mages

Did you call your psychic friend before you posted, or are you making this up on your own?

Self quotes:
I imagine "ideal" dueling items don't vary much from country to country; it's all the same game.

Elemental damage is used when one player can't hit the other one.

These two comments relate only to equipment. The latter doesn't evaluate whether Elemental Damage is good, merely its possible use. I haven't discussed technique at all, yet you feel informed enough to comment on my knowledge of it and two other notions of what I may or may not know -- all in comparison to yourself. You seem to fit snugly into the dueler stereotype.

Quote:I think you didn't get the point

You classified "... clans, clan wars, tournaments, ... information about some really annoying cheaters" as newsworthy. So, in reply to your original question ("Do you have many clans and battle.net news pages and stuff like that? ") I said we don't cover certain things you listed because it's just silliness.

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09-11-2003, 01:55 AM
Post: #10
Dueling and other diferences abroad
kempes.KGB.,Sep 10 2003, 02:34 PM Wrote:and i bet that where you come from warriors cannot kill mages  :lol:
Even if dueling isn't what most people here like about Diablo, we can still apply some basic strategy to dueling; ever heard of "Telekill"? I'm pretty sure our LAW 500+ HP, 250% to Hit+, maxed resists warrior with 200+ mana Warrior could take that Arty, Tank or whatever mage down, assuming he's controlled by a skillfull player :P
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09-11-2003, 07:56 AM (This post was last modified: 09-11-2003 07:57 AM by Sr.Juez.)
Post: #11
Dueling and other diferences abroad
kempes.KGB.,Sep 10 2003, 04:34 PM Wrote:looks like you are hell back in dueling techniques :P you probably don't even know that it is possible to generate and control (partialy) the lag between players...  :D  :lol:
and i bet that where you come from warriors cannot kill mages  :lol:

I thought this link could be useful for you, kempes.KGB.

Elric of Gran's Lurker Lounge Posting Etiquette

Just read point number ONE:

1) On any forum, anywhere, LURK before you post. Generally it doesn't go down well commenting that you preferred tuna when it had dolphin in it on GREENPEACE! Likewise, if the Lurker Lounge doesn't quite fit for you, why post?

BTW, these were written by Elric of Grans, one of the LL admins, LIKE LemmingofGlory, if you hadn't yet noticed.

I believe I'm not being omniscient much if I bet that being of the admins in here, he knows quite well what he does, even in duels.

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09-13-2003, 09:33 AM (This post was last modified: 09-13-2003 09:34 AM by kempes.KGB..)
Post: #12
Dueling and other diferences abroad
You misunderstood me. I wasn't trying to offend you, I was just trying to make the discussion more spicy (is that the correct word? ;p), to make more people post some information because I got the impression that nobody is interested in this topic... Sorry if I offended someone ;p

Quote:our style is diffrent then the european style, we use 8 pots and magic, not the euro no magic no pot duels, its highly skill intensive and the best duels can last up to 30 min. so please feel free to stop by anytime, the eastern peek time for duelers is 9pm est to 12am est

It's kind of werid... I thought that sorcerors were supposed to use magic and warriors were supposed to use steel ;) I was wondering... How do you play duels? Do you use fireball, etc. or only heal yourself and teleport? Warrior casts spells very slowly so it would be obvious (for me ;p) that a warrior "with a staff" has no chances with a warrior with a sword... Our WvW duels also very often last more than 30 minutes although we don't use potions, magic and elemental dmg :)

Quote:The community knew this many years ago.

There is a difference in having the knowledge and using it ;) Very often the most obvious things are the most difficult to think up :)

Quote:You must either move into range or make the other player move into range in order to be able to hit with any melee attack, elemental damage is no different.

Yep, but in a duel where one warrior uses elemental dmg and the other one doesn't the one with elemental dmg is the attacker...
What if he doesn't want to attack? Well, there is a small usefull bug that you probably know ;> The one that let's you hit (or rather kill ;>) your opponent even when he is standing guard and has enough dexterity to block 100% ;)

Quote:omg u must r00lz 2 beat a sorceror in a dule!!! i bet ur the best dueler in europe server!

I think I explained that one before ;p What I mean is that in Poland warriors didn't stand a chance in duels with sorcerors a few years ago...

Quote:I imagine "ideal" dueling items don't vary much from country to country; it's all the same game

I think they do ;)

Quote:These two comments relate only to equipment. The latter doesn't evaluate whether Elemental Damage is good, merely its possible use. I haven't discussed technique at all, yet you feel informed enough to comment on my knowledge of it and two other notions of what I may or may not know -- all in comparison to yourself. You seem to fit snugly into the dueler stereotype.

I was discussing the technique in Italy, Spain, etc., not in USA - I would be glad to hear a reason why elemental dmg is such a good technique, maybe you know something that I don't.

Quote: ever heard of "Telekill"?

I'd be glad to ;) maybe i've heard about it but I heard a different name for it ;p

Quote:I'm pretty sure our LAW 500+ HP, 250% to Hit+, maxed resists warrior with 200+ mana Warrior could take that Arty, Tank or whatever mage down, assuming he's controlled by a skillfull player

Here you have an example that "ideal dueling equipment" does change from country to country ;) btw. the sorceror can also be skillfull ;)

Quote:I believe I'm not being omniscient much if I bet that being of the admins in here, he knows quite well what he does, even in duels.

And how do you know if I don't know "something" about diablo?

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09-13-2003, 12:20 PM
Post: #13
Dueling and other diferences abroad
...to revive an interest in dueling for me, but, I will give you some food for thought. Add to the rust the fact that my mage-hunter, an archer, accidently hit a mana-draining cauldron toward the end of my D1 addiction. After that, if I played D1 it was some variation of a "VK-mod", and none of those mods were balanced for duelists.

Since you mentioned that there is a healthy interest in dueling in the channels you hang out in, why not try team (2v2) dueling? Years ago (98?), when dueling was more popular I participated in some team duels that were a lot of fun. Since certain character graphics make duelists of the same class look the same, it is a bit tricky not to kill your partner. We used standard (at the time) dueling rules: only belt slots, no infravision (the only exception that I am aware of is when I played without sound my opponents would sometimes allow me to burn one belt slot for an infra-scroll), and no leaving the dueling area. For team duels we cleared an entire level and that area became the dueling grounds. In 1v1 duels we usually dueled in the church on a level that had 2-3 large connected rooms and dueled only in those areas (after the entire level was cleared to eliminate any advantage a character employing CL might have). An optional rule in duels was a prohibition on harmony items for mages. Keep in mind that all of our duels were for legit, bug-free participants only; no mana-shield bug users were allowed to play.

My memory of dueling rules for 1v1 games are a bit vague but from what I remember they were:
1) must remain in the dueling area (no leaving the level or arena with the exception of accidental phasing)
2) use of belt slots only (no infra scrolls); warriors and rogues usually started with 8 full rejuv's while mages commonly used only full mana pots (pots were limited to stock on hand, so the non-mages in a duel got all the yellows before a mage)
3) the champion is the one who wins 2 out of 3 matches (or was it 3 of 5?)
4) no third party programs, cheats, dupes or bug abuse allowed
5) everyone acquires the map before the duel commences and goes to opposite sides of the arena (out of sight of their opponent); players would switch sides after each match (to equalize the "left-side view" advantage)
6) a "verbal" countdown would begin (if a neutral party was present s/he would start the count)

Some additional notes:
We played with our best duelists (many of the people I played with were L45+ but level is not as significant as gear and experience; my archer was ~L42 when she started collecting L50 mage ears) in Hell difficulty (the higher gold drops were used to finance repairs and pot consumption). Gear switching was allowed on mutual consent during duels, but this was uncommon and usually impractical as there were no "time-outs". A "gear check" was conducted after each match to prevent item loss due to breakage. Phasing was commonly used by duelists to escape possible stun-lock by tele-killing melee characters (warriors are not the only ones who use this tactic) since "phase" is faster than "teleport". Favored weapons in duels were often "strange" and "of swiftness/speed/haste". The most common mistake made in duels that I have witnessed/participated in is hitting the wrong key, either the wrong belt slot or hotkey. Inexperienced or rusty duelists should practice using their dueling set-up (for gear and hotkeys) outside of duels.

Although I played with/against people who dueled with characters of all three classes, my only duelists were of the rogue and mage classes. The best duelist in our group was a warrior, but she was good with all three classes.

Xi
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09-13-2003, 03:56 PM (This post was last modified: 09-13-2003 04:59 PM by Disaster(IB).)
Post: #14
Dueling and other diferences abroad
Welcome, I'm D1 player from Poland [Kempes, nice to meet you here :D ] and this is my first post here :)
So here we go with the basic dueling rules in Poland (perhaps I'll repeat some of already wirtten here by Kempes, but I'm trynig to make them as clear as possible):

Warrior vs Warrior:
At the beginng I'll add something about elemental dmg. Perhaps it was already said :) Few years ago we used to play with elemental dmg, the same as everywhere. But some time ago we came out from this, and started playing using "fall outs" (I hope this is correct word :D ). In case that both players are hitting each other, and both are blocking the hits, one of players starts swinging his sword in reverse direction from his foe. Then the second one does the same, and both start walking again. So, you probably wonder how do they hit each others? They have to "catch" the opponent while he's moving. It may seem quite difficult to do it, but we cannot forget about the lag (set-back between players). So for example when you are coming to your enemy, he sees it with that set-back. So, when you are already able to hit him, he still sees you coming. So he gets hit, but he doesn't see it! And it is how it works. But what, if the connection is very good, and there is no lag? :D You have to generate it! And there are lots of ways how to do it in the game. For example - going in circles in the corner of the Arena can generate a lag, as well as moving across the Arena by 3-4 fields and stopping.
And here are the rules:
- Duels are played in big rooms with columns 4 in the middle [they are called "Arenas"],
- No potions and no spells,
- Duel is played until one of players wins 3 rounds (best-of-five system),
- Usage of elemental dmg is a matter of settlement between the players,
- Players have to use "fall-outs" in case they can't hit each others in contact.

Mage vs Mage:
- Duels are played in big rooms with columns 4 in the middle [they are called "Arenas"],
- You can drink 2, 4, 8 potions, or you play without drinking any potions (just a matter of settlement between the players),
- Duel is played until one of players wins 3 rounds (best-of-five system),
- Players can't walk all the time, they have to use Teleport or Phasing spells to move. Of course there is no strict prohibition of walking, but players shouldn't exaggerate :D

I don't know much about the rules in Rogue duels, because the Rouge is the less popular class... And most of the Rouges are dueling mainly with Mages or Warriors.

I think that's all about the rules in Poland. Now I would like to read about the tactics you use in duels. Especialy in Mage duels. Do you prefer walking and only casting Fireballs, or do you Teleport and Phase continuously? Do you have any "advanced" tactics? :D

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09-13-2003, 04:58 PM
Post: #15
Dueling and other diferences abroad
...of not dueling, I must say that your style of dueling is horribly boring to me. I am sure other people might find what you do "fun" but it sounds tedious and repetetive to me. Relying on lag creation to win a duel sounds cheesy to me. The main draw dueling had for me was experiencing an unexpected tactic and trying to counter it with either reflex or wit. By limiting warriors to "no spells" duels, you eliminate the unexpected. Warrior vs warrior duels were considered droll among the people I used to play with. Mixed class duels were always much more interesting and challenging although mage vs mage duels were ever popular.

Xi

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09-13-2003, 05:14 PM (This post was last modified: 09-13-2003 05:16 PM by Disaster(IB).)
Post: #16
Dueling and other diferences abroad
Xiuhcoatl,Sep 13 2003, 04:49 PM Wrote:I must say that your style of dueling is horribly boring to me. I am sure other people might find what you do "fun" but it sounds tedious and repetetive to me.
I know it may sound boring and repetetive, but it's not :D The best example of why it isn't, it's the numer of players still playing D1 in Poland [as warriors], although it has its years...
You've albo said that this rules make duels repetetive. Definitely not! There are lots of tricks, tactics, weapon setups and so on. I can't told you too much about them, because I used to play a Sorcerer, and just about 2 moths I started playing with a Warrior. But already I can tell, that to play on these rules, you have to be very precisive, and experienced. You simply have to know, what your opponent can do in a moment. Because of lag, what you see is not what is :D For example, if your opponent stops and swings in your direction 4 fields from you, he actualy can be not 4, but 2 fields from you :D It is only an example. There are much more things like this...
But, of course, it doesn't mean, that we don't play, for example, using spells. Duels, where you can use magic, elemental dmg etc. are called Freestyles ( :D ), but, unfortunately, very few people play them...

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09-14-2003, 03:26 AM
Post: #17
Dueling and other diferences abroad
Quote:LemmingofGlory
I imagine "ideal" dueling items don't vary much from country to country; it's all the same game

Quote:kempes.KGB.
I think they do

Deja vu.

Quote:LemmingofGlory
These two comments relate only to equipment. The latter doesn't evaluate whether Elemental Damage is good, merely its possible use.

Quote:kempes.KGB.
I would be glad to hear a reason why elemental dmg is such a good technique.

Are you stuck on "transmit"?

-Lem
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09-14-2003, 12:26 PM
Post: #18
Dueling and other diferences abroad
You do seem to be polite and literate, but it's your signature that bothers me. PK clan? I sincerely hope that's a no-no around here.

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09-14-2003, 12:52 PM
Post: #19
Dueling and other diferences abroad
PK Clan, in this case, means, that members of it play to kill other players. But we don't kill them when they don't expect it, we play duels and we are actually pretty good at it :D So our main target is to practice duelling skills and win with others in legit, honorable duels.
Of course, I don't mean we never PK other people when they are unprepared :D :ph34r:

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09-14-2003, 02:58 PM
Post: #20
Dueling and other diferences abroad
Quote:PK Clan, in this case, means, that members of it play to kill other players. But we don't kill them when they don't expect it, we play duels and we are actually pretty good at it.

Then you're using the wrong term. Readers will assume only the former statement, not the latter, when they see the term "PK." Why? "PK" is associated with grief play.

"Dueler"/"Duelist", on the other hand, more closely implies both meanings. For clarity, I'd recommend changing your sig to reflect that. It's bound to come up again.

-Lem
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