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Questions about hellfire
08-11-2003, 05:42 PM
Post: #1
Questions about hellfire
I have a simple question that hopefully you guys will help me with. Of first I have beat diablo about 4 times I don't claim to be an expert or a newbie just a somewhat experienced player so please bear with me. My question is what are some of the differences between Diablo and hellfire I am considering getting hellfire and would like to know what changes I can expect. Thanks for your time I look forward to your replies.

(Nomad25055) :)

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08-11-2003, 05:56 PM
Post: #2
Questions about hellfire
Hi there!

Hellfire is Sierras official expansion to Diablo 1.
It adds two new dungeons with 4 levels each including new monsters (well most of them are old monsters from Diablo1 that weren'd used in the game)
There is 1 new character (Monk) and 2 variants: Rogue (Bard, can wield two weapons) and warrior (Barbarian, no magic but enough damage for everyone).
Hellfire also adds a couple of new items (oils and runes) which were originally made for Diablo1 but were, again, not used in the final game.
A fresh set of new spells is also available and now you can read nova and apocalypse books.
You are also able to select the difficulty in the single player mode without usind the multiplayer workaround.
There are also a couple of new unique items.

So much for the theory, here's the dark side of hellfire:
You have no battle-net support, but you can enable multiplayer with a patched dll.
Due to incredible stupidity almost none of the unique jewelery can be found.
Having Apocalypse as a spell is really damn stupid...yeah..mages need to be more powerful.
There are also quite a lot of minor bugs and useless/redundant items in the game.
It's based on Diablo 1.04 with some additional fixes, so bugs removed in later Diablo versions are not covered.

Most of this is fixed in LemmingofDeath's Mod Hellfire:Fixed. You can download it in the mods section.
If you're not into battle.net I can recommend Hellfire to you, as it's fun to play with the new additions.

As I have always had a Diablo-fanatic living close to me, I never played in the bnet very often so I switched to Hellfire very soon and stayed there. I can't live without it...well as this previously mentioned Diablo-fanatic is now living somewhere else far far away, I might give the oldschool Diablo a chance.
With Hellfire:Fixed you can't do anything wrong.

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08-11-2003, 06:15 PM (This post was last modified: 08-11-2003 06:17 PM by Phredreeke.)
Post: #3
Questions about hellfire
I'd recommend Hellfire if you like Single Player Diablo. If you like Multi Player, you can also get mods for Hellfire which allows multiplayer games over LAN or Kali.

Hellfire only got one patch, and is much buggier than Diablo 1.09, it should be equal to 1.04 in most aspects. However, there are unofficial mods for Hellfire (The Dark, which makes the game more balanced and harder, and there's Lemming's mod which fixes bugs)

The most important additions to Hellfire are probably the three extra character classes (two are hidden), the two extra levels and the ability to play NM and Hell in Single Player.

Edit: I wrote this before I saw Mystery's topic. I was doing other stuff before I wrote this up. Clumsy of me, isn't it?
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08-11-2003, 08:28 PM (This post was last modified: 08-11-2003 08:31 PM by Nomad25055.)
Post: #4
Questions about hellfire
Thank you for your replies this information is very much appreciated. I was wondering though what does Lemming's patch do I know it fixes bugs but what I guess I am trying to ask here is what bugs does this patch fix?

P.S What kind of character is the monk?

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08-11-2003, 08:42 PM
Post: #5
Questions about hellfire
This is the full readme to Hellfire: Fixed. Everything that has been changed can be found here:
http://www.lurkerlounge.com/lemming/hffreadme.htm


The Monk is a nice allround character with some heavy bonus on light armor...you can get 120AC with a naked character. He has got good Str and Dex with average Dex and Vit.
Give him a nice Kings|Speed staff and whack your way through the dungeon. He also has the 'search' skill which highlights items on the floor...this is also available as a book/scroll and can be compared to the ALT function in Diablo2.

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08-12-2003, 12:13 AM
Post: #6
Questions about hellfire
>Due to incredible stupidity almost none of the unique jewelery can be found.

Not quite, though I do agree with you with the stupid part. Eg: the Ring of Engagement cannot drop in multiplayer. But Gladiators ring seems to be everywhere.

>Having Apocalypse as a spell is really damn stupid...yeah..mages need to be more powerful.

Just my opinion, but I feel Apoc is actually weaker in HF. Besides consuming a lot of mana, it is now a spell that requires a line of sight.

Of course if you really want to discuss stupidity, I think the spell blocking "feature" definitely ranks quite high. If it wasn't for "The Dark" and "HF:Fixed", most Warriors and Monks would still be in a coma.
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08-12-2003, 02:58 AM
Post: #7
Questions about hellfire
Although the engine remains the same, there are a few minor differences between HF and CD.

In Vanilla Hellfire I believe that if the warrior has resistances, he still can block incoming magic (when before in Diablo he could not and simply took the damage). This potentially means less damage but more blocklock in deeper dungeon levels. Be warned. Dunno if the official patch "fixed" this or not.

For the Rogue, traps are bit more difficult to disarm, especially in Hell and Caves, so get ready to die a few times to traps if you aren't very very careful.

For mages (and any mini-mage players) there are some new helpful spells. Right off the bat "Reflect" comes to mind -- like a Mana Shield + Ring of Engagement, it stops yet MORE damage (paired with MS) AND reflects some damage back to the foe. Very nice versus all Hidden type foes, especially Illusion Weavers. There's also Berserk, which is buggy but effective. And Lightning Wall! Awesome spell for beginning characters! Ah, I think you can _possibly_ get a book Apocalypse when you kill Na-krul. I don't know if it can drop anywhere else.

New shrines: consult Jarulf's guide. FYI, touch Oily and Solar, avoid Murphy's (all characters) and Glowing (for high level characters).

There are new opponents of course once you reach the Hive and the Crypt. There are two (and only two) bosses in the Hive, but both are pretty powerful against standard characters. Be forewarned. The Crypt has no bosses except the final boss himself.

The final boss in Hellfire (a la Diablo) doesn't cast Apocalypse, which makes him a bit easier to deal with.

There are some new/used prefixes and suffixes you should be on the lookout for: Wyrm's, Hydra's, crystalline, of devastation; and then plenty of new Uniques, only some of which are good.

Overall The Crypt plays most differently -- imagine a cross between Hell opponents and Church dungeon -- you can slam doors and fire through grates at some of these HUGE foes! Of course, some do pursue and can open doors -- you'll find out by experience.

The Hives is hard on the eyes and it is difficult to pick out "set" spots where you can stand and fire and avoid incoming.

Oh, and there are plenty of "Undead" in the Crypt and even some in The Hive, so you might want to save a good blunt through the very end of the game.

Hope this helped.

Attika
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08-12-2003, 05:21 AM
Post: #8
Questions about hellfire
Quote:In Vanilla Hellfire I believe that if the warrior has resistances, he still can block incoming magic. ... Dunno if the official patch "fixed" this or not.

Not only did v1.01 not fix this, all characters suffer. Monk, who blocks with virtually every weapon setup that makes him efficient, is turned into a lean, mean *tinking* machine on Succubus levels.

Spellblocking was more-or-less the inspiration behind HFF. It's fixed there to be sure.

Quote:There's also Berserk, which is buggy but effective.

Agreed. Berserk is excellent for foiling enemy shooters. Thenryb and I had a fun Hell/Cats game recently where Berserk was used on every Flesh Clan Archer that reared its scraggly goatee. Each was rendered singularly impotent, mobs preferring to plink arrows at one another (never doing enough damage to kill). Needless to say, it made things very easy on us. :)

Quote:Ah, I think you can _possibly_ get a book Apocalypse when you kill Na-krul. I don't know if it can drop anywhere else.

He always drops a Book of Apocalypse. I've not seen it drop anywhere else, myself.

Quote:There are some new/used prefixes and suffixes you should be on the lookout for: Wyrm's, Hydra's, crystalline, of devastation; and then plenty of new Uniques, only some of which are good.

Unfortunately, Devastation is only qlvl 1 and there really aren't any interesting prefixes that can go with it.

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08-12-2003, 05:25 AM
Post: #9
Questions about hellfire
:Hammerskjold
> Not quite, though I do agree with you with the stupid part. Eg: the Ring of Engagement cannot drop in
> multiplayer. But Gladiators ring seems to be everywhere.
Yeah, that's why I said "almost none". There are 8 new rings in Hellfire and 6 of them cannot be found in Multiplayer. If you've got loads of time you may be able to find them in single player.


>Just my opinion, but I feel Apoc is actually weaker in HF. Besides consuming a lot of mana, it is now a spell that
>requires a line of sight.
Yes, it has been weakened a bit, but it still remains very powerful. A mage shouldn't have too many problems with FB, CL and MS...so why Apoc?

>Of course if you really want to discuss stupidity, I think the spell blocking "feature" definitely ranks quite high. If
>it wasn't for "The Dark" and "HF:Fixed", most Warriors and Monks would still be in a coma.
Yeah, blocking really sucks...besides that, the "of thieves" suffix is still reducing magic missle damage in HF making these items quite useful for Barbarians/Warriors in Hell/Hell.


Attika:
The HF1.01 patch didn't fix the magic-missle block-crap, but Lemmings Mod does!

Oh and Mana Shield is still buggy in HF. The MS-Stun block still exists, even in Lemmings Mod and the Spell gets worse with each level increased....I don't remember if Lemming fixed this.

Apoc books are ONLY dropped by Na-Krul....every time you kill him.

The crypt plays awesome! It's a great challange for a Barbarian as soon as Lichs occur. I love it! Na-Krul is a bit disappointing, being easy to beat even without the books as he fights melee only.
Hive needs some time to get used to...but now I kinda like it, too. The two bosses are quite cool, but easy, too. Note that the Hord-Demon and the Hork-Spawns are disabled in Hellfire:Fixed thus making Celia kinda useless....well she should team up with Wirt :D

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08-12-2003, 07:10 AM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2003 07:11 AM by LemmingofGlory.)
Post: #10
Questions about hellfire
Quote:Yeah, that's why I said "almost none". There are 8 new rings in Hellfire and 6 of them cannot be found in Multiplayer. If you've got loads of time you may be able to find them in single player.

More importantly, only 4 of the 13 total unqiue rings can drop in MP HF. And two of them are lame carryovers from D1.

To find all of the qlvl 8's in SP HF, you have to find them all in one game. And, afterwards, they morph anyway.

Quote:Oh and Mana Shield is still buggy in HF. The MS-Stun block still exists, even in Lemmings Mod and the Spell gets worse with each level increased....I don't remember if Lemming fixed this.

People can read the readme all by themself. In fact, I'd suggest it. Second-hand information tends to get skewed.

By moe: Two MS-related bugs fixed is non-specific. But how many other MS bugs are there? :p Fixes subtraction of too much life when MS falls off. Sets MS dmg reduction to a constant 33%.

OLD: The "classic" MS Bug (MS-No-Stun) still exists.

Quote:Note that the Hork-Demon and the Hork-Spawns are disabled in Hellfire:Fixed thus making Celia kinda useless....

NEW: Hork Demon began causing crashes at some point, so he's been removed.

Didn't say anything about Hork Spawns. :p

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08-12-2003, 07:58 AM
Post: #11
Questions about hellfire
>More importantly, only 4 of the 13 total unqiue rings can drop in MP HF. And two of them are lame carryovers
>from D1.
>To find all of the qlvl 8's in SP HF, you have to find them all in one game. And, afterwards, they morph
>anyway.
Hehe...yeah, all in one game.
I think the possibility of finding Lightforge in Single Player is much higher, as you only need to find three mace-type uniques ;)


>By moe: Two MS-related bugs fixed is non-specific. But how many other MS bugs are there? :P Fixes
>subtraction of too much life when MS falls off. Sets MS dmg reduction to a constant 33%.
What causes the unusually high life reduction?
Just to make sure I got it right: With Hellfire:Fixed life subtraction is fixed and an increasing spell level just reduces mana cost?


>Didn't say anything about Hork Spawns. :P
Umm...yeah...I guess I should pay more attention :lol:

What about the speed/haste bug? This was supposed to be fixed in 1.07 but as far as I remember, the bug still exists in 1.09.
What about HF:F? Can this bug be removed or is it impossible as Blizzard failed to do so in 1.07....well....they failed in removing the dupe bug which was successfully done by DrZed...so maybe the speed/haste thing may not be too difficult to fix.

I found a HF:F related bug:
If you find an Oil of Fortitude in classic HF 1.01 and then load the character in HF:F the Fortitude Oil morphs into a Blacksmith oil. I don't know if you knew it already, just wanted to mention it.

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08-12-2003, 09:00 AM
Post: #12
Questions about hellfire
>NEW: Hork Demon began causing crashes at some point, so he's been removed.

Even if it wasn't for the technical problem, I'd still lobby pretty hard to remove him just on the basis of his visual appearance alone. It might be just my taste, but a big pink snot monster doesn't contribute to the scary atmosphere of D1. I can tolerate grave diggers, I can even tolerate some of the ratmen, even the annoying hellbat squeals in vanilla HF. But the lord of the mucous over there, is a damn insult to all the artists who crafted all the fine cast of villains in D1.
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08-12-2003, 09:23 AM
Post: #13
Questions about hellfire
>Even if it wasn't for the technical problem, I'd still lobby pretty hard to remove him just on the basis of his visual
>appearance alone. It might be just my taste, but a big pink snot monster doesn't contribute to the scary
>atmosphere of D1. I can tolerate grave diggers, I can even tolerate some of the ratmen, even the annoying
>hellbat squeals in vanilla HF. But the lord of the mucous over there, is a damn insult to all the artists who
>crafted all the fine cast of villains in D1.

Interesting...I alwaya found the Hork Demon to be quite a cool addition to Hellfire. Together with the Theodore quest I was always down in the Hive for a little jewelery-hunt in every game :)
I personally think that the Hork Spawns, the Psychorbs and the Shredded (even if they are originally from Diablo1!) are way more ugly and unfitting. IMO the Hork Demon kinda fits to the overall look of the Hive which itself doesn't fit into the Diablo look'n'feel.
The Crypt is much cooler and so are its enemies...but what about the Flesh Things? Pink, ugly with high pitched dumb squeals...I think they're funny, but they don't really fit.

What sucks most is the lack of the feeling when hitting most of the new Hellfire enemies.
Or is it just me?
When I hit one of the original D1 enemies, like a skeleton, with an axe you hear a nice sound when the Skeleton is hit (and not dead).
When hitting...let's say a Hellboar in the Hive...you hear almost nothing and IIRC you don't even see the monster getting hit...this doesn't feel right at all.
Not all HF-enemies have this problem...the Crypt Demons for example have the coolest hit-sound ever.

It this a problem of the new enemies not being implemented correctly? Or is it just due to the hit-sounds being crappy?

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08-12-2003, 07:01 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2003 07:05 PM by LemmingofGlory.)
Post: #14
Questions about hellfire
Quote:I think the possibility of finding Lightforge in Single Player is much higher, as you only need to find three mace-type uniques

Probably. I'll note, though, that the probability of finding Lightforge in Hellfire is nil.

Quote:What causes the unusually high life reduction?

A bug.

Quote:Just to make sure I got it right: With Hellfire:Fixed life subtraction is fixed and an increasing spell level just reduces mana cost?

Moe's fixes reflect fixes from the v1.07 patch.

From D1 patch.txt:
10. Fixed the bug that caused Mana Shield to become less effective with increasing spell level.

11. Fixed the bug that caused excessive damage when a Mana Shield expired due to an attack.


Quote:What about the speed/haste bug? This was supposed to be fixed in 1.07 but as far as I remember, the bug still exists in 1.09.
What about HF:F?

The readme exists so I don't have to go through a laundry list of "Did you fix this?"

Quote:Can this bug be removed or is it impossible as Blizzard failed to do so in 1.07...

Yes.

Quote:I found a HF:F related bug:
If you find an Oil of Fortitude in classic HF 1.01 and then load the character in HF:F the Fortitude Oil morphs into a Blacksmith oil. I don't know if you knew it already, just wanted to mention it.

Not a bug. It has to do with changing base types. Compare datahell for vanilla and HFF if you're curious.

Quote:...but what about the Flesh Things? Pink, ugly with high pitched dumb squeals...I think they're funny, but they don't really fit.

I, too, find their "somebody's molesting a balloon" walknoise annoying. I believe I tried changing their sfx once and the game crashed. Could try again, I suppose.

Quote:It this a problem of the new enemies not being implemented correctly? Or is it just due to the hit-sounds being crappy?

Their hit sounds are really crappy. Sierra has a very poor conception of "Gothic dungeon crawl."

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08-12-2003, 07:17 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2003 07:17 PM by Mystery.)
Post: #15
Questions about hellfire
>Probably. I'll note, though, that the probability of finding Lightforge in Hellfire is nil.
Even in single player? Huh...I didn't know that.


>The readme exists so I don't have to go through a laundry list of "Did you fix this?"
Uh well yeah, but as it wasn't mentioned at all in the readme I was curious as this is a quite well known bug which was even tried to be fixed by Blizzard *g*


>>Can this bug be removed or is it impossible as Blizzard failed to do so in 1.07...
>Yes.
Yeah..well...which of the questions does the "yes" answer? ;)

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08-12-2003, 07:36 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2003 07:37 PM by LemmingofGlory.)
Post: #16
Questions about hellfire
Quote:>Probably. I'll note, though, that the probability of finding Lightforge in Hellfire is nil.

Even in single player? Huh...I didn't know that.

Lightforge occupied unique position 9 in D1. In Hellfire, that position is occupied by the Bovine Plate. Sierra wrote over Lightforge, leaving cheaters without their favorite hat.

Quote:Uh well yeah, but as it wasn't mentioned at all in the readme...

Therefore, in all likelihood, nothing was done.

Quote:>>Can this bug be removed or is it impossible as Blizzard failed to do so in 1.07...

>Yes.

Yeah..well...which of the questions does the "yes" answer?

Both.

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08-13-2003, 12:42 AM
Post: #17
Questions about hellfire
Hello Lemming,

"I believe I tried changing their sfx once and the game crashed. Could try again, I suppose."

To remove the sound for the Flesh Things, you could swap them with another monster in the table. That will disable it. Or, you can change the '00000087' in the following code, so it will no longer match the correct table entry.

file offset 0003CBDC
:0043D7DC 813887000000 cmp dword ptr [eax], 00000087

file offset 0003CD41
:0043D941 813887000000 cmp dword ptr [eax], 00000087

file offset 0003CE83
:0043DA83 813887000000 cmp dword ptr [eax], 00000087
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08-13-2003, 06:15 AM
Post: #18
Questions about hellfire
Are there any items that can't be found in mp on D1 that are in sp? Also what items work best for the warrior? Up to this point I have only used my artillery mage so I am eager to try the other characters.

Nomad25055 B)

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08-13-2003, 07:02 AM
Post: #19
Questions about hellfire
Quote:Are there any items that can't be found in mp on D1 that are in sp?

Quest items and certain uniques. Off the top of my head: Crackrust, The Deflector, Bramble, Lightforge, Gonnagal's Dirk, The Mangler. All of these uniques are low level junk, so MP really isn't missing much.

Quote:Also what items work best for the warrior?

If you've never played one, there's no point giving you a grocery list. In general, you'll want to keep a few things in mind:

The blocking a shield provides is better than any extra damage a two-handed weapon bestows. And you block better with high dex. Max out dex, use a shield, look for +dex equipment. (When dex maxed, pump str.)

At low levels, the BULK of your damage is from your weapon. Blunts (Club-Maul class) do 50% more total damage to undeads (Skeletons, Zombies), but half total to Animals (Fallens, Scavengers, Spitters, most Bats, Horned Demons). Swords (Dagger-Great Sword class) do just the opposite. It's to your advantage to keep a decent Blunt and a decent Sword on-hand for early levels, swapping them as necessary to deal with monsters. After dlvl 6, you can switch to a sword exclusively.

If you want to hurt the monsters you must be able to hit them. Warrior's dexterity is too low to provide all the "to hit" he needs. Weapons with +ToHit% should be sought.

+Light Radius is BAD. I wager this enchantment kills more newbies than almost anything else. (Most) Monsters are activated (i.e. woken up) by the character's light radius. Bigger light means bigger fight. Newbies shouldn't play those odds.

Use intelligent tactics. Don't run into the middle of big rooms. Big rooms have LOTS of monsters. Activate monsters in small, managable groups. Retreat when necessary. Make use of dungeon objects like chests, doorways, and other obstructions to hinder monster advancement. Take as few at a time as you can.

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08-13-2003, 08:41 PM
Post: #20
Questions about hellfire
Ok I cleared Diablo with my warrior and think I got a good set up for my warrior so far: King's sword of haste, Godly helm of the whale, Obsidian ring of the zodiac, Holy shield, and Demonspike. I was really surprised when I got these items in 2 runs through the game. I KNOW that there are better items out there maybe now that I have had some exp. with the warrior you could give me a little more insight on what items I should be using.

Nomad25055 :)

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