Do we have to play on the ladder?

[Ignatz]

If you haven't seen it yet:

Jah Jah Jah Bling

and

Cham

A interesting high level rune recipe. But it works only on open and ladder play.

So my question is this: Is Blizzard saying, with all these 'ladder only' extras "If you want to play legit, you must play on the ladder?" Or put another way, "If you want these goodies, you have to play legit?"

I didn't really want to play on the ladder, but now I'm starting to feel like that's the only way to go...what do you all think?

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

Open!

*puts away repetative soapbox tool*

[Bolty]

Just wondering - why NOT play on the ladder? Who cares if you're competing or not. I think most players decided long ago that the ladder will be the place to play in 1.10.

Blizzard's already said such things anyway; back in the beginning they said simply that "if you want to play legit, you must play on the realms." This is no different.

-Bolty

[Bun-Bun]

I've always thought that the rune upgrades should extend upwards. I don't understand why Bliz felt the need to add more junk into the formula, though. I'd have thought just sticking to the "3 lesser = 1 greater" would be easier to code and remember.

Oh well, it's not like flawless gems are hard to find. It'll be good to move all those muled Hel's and Io's up to a Lum rune or three for the Unique upgrade recipe. Moving Thul's to Amn would be mighty handy, too.

Damn, I'm getting interested in 1.10. I think I need professional help. :)

[Jugalator]

Yeah, I'm not going to involve myself in some "WOOT!! LAAADDER RUUUSH!" but more just to play on a Realm with a clean economy (aaah). Ok, it might not last more than a few weeks, but still... I'll make new chars in 1.10 anyway (the skill synergies will probably make my chars become badly optimized), so I don't see a reason to stay on the realm of crappy economy. :)

But I understand if people like their 90+ character(s) they've worked so hard for as well. However, I'm personally not *that* attached to them and their items. It will be fun to try something new! :)

Before you go wild about this recipe though, remember you'll need millions of Ort's or something to get an Ist or whatever. :) I think it was 81 Ohm's to get a Jah. <_< Hmm..

[Guest]

The ladder it self is no differnet than it ever was. All previouss characters ever have beeen "ladder".

The signifigance is that they have derived a means to segregate clean new characters from from old character. By only putting the best goodies in for the new group Blizzard is assuring the the new clean group will have a dynamic multiplayer envirement.

And although its true many people here dont embrace trading etc(which is fine), trading is a core element of the game. This assures that legit players will once again be able to enjoy trading.

The truth is the only old characters that are definetly legit are the ones who never traded. Hopefully if you made a self relient character you did it in singleplayer/open. If not I inderstand why you are unhappy, but I think Blizzard is doing the right thing.

[Dagni]

Is Blizzard saying, with all these 'ladder only' extras "If you want to play legit, you must play on the ladder?"

All these 'ladder only' extras? This is the only extra that has been specifically given. And in this specific instance, even extending this recipe to include all the other rune upgrades that will likely exist, I don't see this as being all that big a deal. I mean, even if you collect and cube every single rune that ever drops, you will, on average, cube your way to about 1.17 Zods for every Zod you find normally. Indeed, for any particular rune, if you are willing to sacrifice every rune of lower level, you will about double your chances of getting that rune.

Indeed, given how uber the realm economy already is, prohibiting the realms could be a good thing. Blizzard certainly doesn't want Zods to become the next SoJs. And if you really need that Ohm, and really have saved all those lower runes, couldn't you just trade for it? Well, I wouldn't do that, I find trading to generally be more hassle than it's worth, but for those that do trades on a regular basis, I would guess that two or three of the just lower rune would often be worth more than the next higher.

So, in short, a ladder-only character will likely be given an advantage or two, but just as you don't have to party to gain experience, you don't have to make ladder characters. Now, if Blizzard follows through on their promise to make some new uniques ladder-only, then, depending on the uniques, my viewpoint might change. But until there is anything that can only be gotten by ladder/open characters (anybody can get a Cham), I say, who cares?

- Dagni

[Ignatz]

I'm just concerned that it could be a big recursive mess. I mean, I like having an account full of characters that grow, find and trade items amongst each other, old characters mingling with new, et cetera. I also like twinking (though very selectively) to reward a character for reaching a particular milestone or as form of maturation. But if ladder characters keep becoming non-ladder characters at the end of each season, it will make for a very odd community dynamic.

Will players all go back to their non-ladder characters after the first season ends and their chars get spat back into the general pool? How will one twink or trade between old and new ladder characters? That being the case, wouldn't graduating old ladder characters inhibit trading in ladder play? People really LIKE their items, and they LIKE their finely tuned characters...I don't see a system that continually wants players to start anew as being as satisfying for those reasons.

The bottom line is that if ladder play is where legit play is, then that is where I'm playing. No question. But I'm a little ambivalent about some of the side affects of recursive matriculation....not sure that that's the healthiest way to do everything else.

Besides, I know my vices in the game, and I know that my first ladder character in a season likely will be a killing machine that loads up on MF gear because I'll be excited and enticed by the ladder-only items, yet putting in what it takes to go after them will limit my play-time fun. Yes, this is neurotic way to put it, but I know that I will be torn, AGAIN, between my desire for cool things and my desire for cool characters. Trading in a legit world will be a godsend, to be sure, but I feel like I'll continually be tempted to trade for ladder-only items for particular characters I have made that are not ladder characters, so then when springtime comes and everybody graduates, I'll have graduation gifts for my beloved old characters.

I guess I'm just wary of the odd-seeming logistics in a recursive ladder-only playspace.

[protoshoggoth]

Here's what I see happening. The first ladder season will be huge, everyone and their dad will start playing 'on the ladder'. The real test will be the second and subsequent seasons, if and when they occur. But only those who really, really want the perks of ladder play and those that actually are interested in the ladder itself will continue with subsequent seasons. So I predict the second season will be much smaller.

In part this calculus depends on the degree to which the economy has collapsed in the first season. If the second season is started because of a thermonuclear-item duping explosion, rather than because the ladder has long-since filled with 99's, this may all change.

[Guest]

Remember how long the original ladder season ran(and the current one)?

If this one lasts that long, there may be very players by the end of it anyway.

[Fragbait]

No flatrate/ broadband connection.
I don't just want to be able to play on the net, when every hour costs me more money.
I want to play the same chars on LANs, too.
And, the game is fun to play in Singleplayer, too.
It's not about competing or not, it's about how much online-time you dedicate to the game. I for myself don't play on the realms. Sometimes open - then I can use my Singleplayer Character. It's far less complicated for the casual half hour that can be pushed in here and there (especially with a lame 56k connection). This way my friend and I can each play different amounts of time at home each, and then meet again in open. He, too, thinks that it's not worth getting online for an occasional Baal Run before dinner or whenever there's not too much time.

I'm well aware that this might be different for other players. Just my 2 cents.


Greetings, Fragbait

[Leon[fp]]

Will players all go back to their non-ladder characters after the first season ends and their chars get spat back into the general pool? How will one twink or trade between old and new ladder characters? That being the case, wouldn't graduating old ladder characters inhibit trading in ladder play? People really LIKE their items, and they LIKE their finely tuned characters...I don't see a system that continually wants players to start anew as being as satisfying for those reasons.

I agree. A suggestion might be to store all the info and stats about ladder characters on www.battle.net, like all stats of all accounts on Warcraft III is also available on internet. That way you can see your and other's achievements of past ladder seasons, it'll make you feel proud ;)

[Animation]

Ignatz,

I'm also becoming very frustrated with the ladder idea also. I play on the realms with friends, but generally I dont trade. I can count the number of items I got from friends on one hand: 3. None of them are high level items, just loaners. My point? I'm legit. I play with others, but I dont trade. I'm not uber. I've worked long and hard on the characters I have. Other than when the expansion came out, I've never had any of my characters become useless, and since I make weird builds anyway, all but one of them could be classified as no better or worse.

So, I'm pretty much dreading all my characters becoming big sucking voids with a character level on them, especially since I worked my way up from the ground floor. I dont have uber items. I may have +3 or +4 to skills on my better characters. Do you know how frustrating it is to take a CB + Hydra sorceress through hell, with no special gear? Frustrating, let me tell you. And satisfying. Now I'm 90% sure that character will be next to useless. Maybe I'm a complainer, but I feel like all these ladder-only changes aren't really going to hurt power gamers, and maybe I'm a cynic, but I dont think it will stop cheaters. But it does make honest guys like me have to "start over" again. WHY?! I liked my high level characters too (Highest is 85, next highest is 69, tho in the past I've had high level characters I lost through lack of attendance, accidental deletions, etc). I usually play new characters, but I dont like losing the ability for my old characters to be effective.

Frankly, I'd rather they just delete everybody's items once a year. At least then the time you spent on your character wouldnt be wasted. You'd know that Hydra 24, Fire Mastery 24 would cut the mustard. Now I'm not so sure.

I wasn't planning to play in the ladder because I was hoping I could have fun in the normal realms at least in Nightmare difficulty with my higher level guys, but now all these ladder-only things are just becoming frustrating. The runes listed in the most recent ladder-only formula, I've never had. Never seen, even though I play on the realms. Most of the new ladder-only items that we've seen I am pretty sure I'll never see. But that's the point ... it was a long road for me, a non-power-gamer, to make it where I am. The new changes are made to force the power players to toughen up and work together more. I feel like I'll never see that way of play, becase thats not who I am, and I feel that hell difficulty for me will become impossible.

And yet, I cant stand some part of the game not being accessible to me, even if I will never attain it, so I feel "forced" to play ladder. It's damned annoying, I tell you.

Ah well.

Lewis

[NkToth]

I've gotten the impression that while they may have plans to flag obviously illegitimate items to prevent trading (possibly a new label color, and 'Can't be traded' messages), they probably will not delete them outright. They recognize that there are way too many casual players that don't know or know but have no way of identifying these items, and don't want the 'Where'd my item go?' flak.

So rather than wipe the closed realms entirely, they've retaken the Ladder concept and will use it to encourage a voluntary wipe, so to speak. The rune formulas (and possibly others) may be a partial nod to the fact that everyone will be starting over, and unable to secure piles of Runes beforehand. The closed realms don't really need it, as runes are plentiful. If (and a big if it is) they recognize and prevent trading of hacked items and prevent trading of hacks in 1.10, then people will be more free to trade for runes they need.

The only other ladder specialty that comes to mind is the World Event, but until more is known about it it's hard to judge if it would be meaningful outside the ladder. A new wild speculation is that it gives the players involved a virtual medal, or puts their name on a different board, or something.

I read at one point (I forget where) that Blizzard hasn't reset the ladder in a while as it's become meaningless, with how fast it's possible to level up to 99. Supposedly the stronger items/abilities we've seen will be required because the monsters will be much, much harder; probably very difficult alone, botting or not.