The Hammerdin Is Offically Dead!

[Taem]

I offically made a Hammerdin with APPROXIMATLY level 48 Blessed Hammer and level 36 Concentration. And his damage sucked!!!!!!!!! He did GREAT in cows, but it took awhile to kill them. His damage was around 1,350 max damage if I rember correctly. Like I said before, in cows, he rocked, and was good overall, but because I focused so much on +items, all he was good for was cows! His defense was so high with his defiance merc that he only had a 5% chance of being struck, and I made sure he had a 75% block and 3 FPS fastest hit recovery. So what killed him? Fanatic cows of course. One hit...

In case you were interested in making a blessed hammerdin, here is the gear I used. Better luck too you.

ITEM : ADDITIONAL SKILL LEVELS
Shako: +2
String of Ears
Arkaines Valor: +2
Stone of Jordan x2: +2
Herald of Zak: +2 / +2 Combat
Waterwalk Boots
Divine Scepter +2 Paladin Skills, +3 Blessed Hammer, +3 Concentration (BTW - you have NO CLUEEEEEEEEE How long it took to find this from the venders!!! Seriously, I spend countless days just checking the venders all day until I finally found this)
Mage Fist
Magical Amulet: +3
Combat Skill Grand Charms x10: +10

TOTALS: +13 Paladin Skills; +12 Combat Skills; +3 Blessed Hammer and Concentration
Blessed Hammer: 20 Skill Points Invested + 13 Paladin Skill Levels + 12 Combat Skills + 3 = 48
Concentration: 20 Skill Points Invested + 13 Paladin Skill Levels + 3 = 36


Additional Gear:
Small charm of balance: 5% FHR
Small charm of vita: +20 life
T.gods and Blackhorns for MSLE
Rising Sun for Diablo

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

Alas... you discover too late the idiocy of creating a "one trick pony".

No soup for you.

[Bun-Bun]

I managed to kill Hell Baal with a fixed-up old-school Hammerdin, and while it was not without difficulty, it was eminently entertaining. Hammerdins have the advantage that Immunities to Magic are fairly rare, and they can usually Smite their way through that in any case. Hammerdins aren't the speed-kill kings they used to be, but they're still playable.

FYI, He had a less-than-godly slvl 34 BH and slvl 24 Concentration.

[Numsay]

Part of your problem was your fast cast percentage. The faster you spam hammers the more you kill ;) Looks like you only have 20% total from your gear. You could try getting to a least 75% for a 10 frame attack, without loosing too many plus skills. Here's a chart:

% FC Frames/Cast
0% 15
9% 14
18% 13
30% 12
48% 11
75% 10
125% 9

Chart taken from:
Tao's Guide to the Paladin @ theamazonbasin

More on the Hammerdin

BTW that is one sweet Divine Scepter .

[Taem]

Yah, my fastest cast was horrible. I think i was at 12 FPS. I didnt mention that I got 10% from my amulet (apprentice). I was trying to get 20% (magus) on the scepter, but trust me, its IMPOSSIBLE - so don't even try it! Another 20% would of put me at 11 FPS cast. Oh well.

[TheDragoon]

I don't buy it. I made a Hammerdin a while ago in 1.09 and he did just fine! :) The secret is to go for a very, very high casting speed AND a good amount of +skill items. I think I was only doing about 1000 damage with my hammers, but I cast them at 9 frames so I was decently speedy. A Holy Freeze mercenary is also of great use to the Hammerdins of today as they make the monsters slow down just enough such that you can annihilate them as they walk up to you. Most monsters I ran into were dead just after they reached me, so, at most, I took one hit from them. Then you just flash the Redemption aura when you're done with a group and BOOM, you're back at full health and mana! :lol:

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

We're referring to two different things, TD.

You're referring to assembling a balanced character, thoughtfully built and played (yes, played... learning curve applicable) into the difficult areas. You're referring to the balance of skill and savvy, learning to play to strengths and weaknesses with a certain build. Some would call it "Strategy".

Numbnuts at the top, there, is expressing his digust that his Godly build still got knocked on its ass, despite his best efforts to tweak it to pieces. Excuse me whilst I search from sympathy for him... for alas, I can't find it easily.

Pardon me... but is there some sort of braindead influx of players of late? :huh: Since when is recreation so goal driven? I enjoy taking my hammerdin (far, FAR the lesser than those given above) into a variety of areas. I enjoy having to deal with the caves and maggot lairs and bloody walls that stop my hammers.

And MEAT, here... can't seem to find the enjoyment at all, seeing as he isn't an indestructible deity in the open plains of the Moo Moo Farm. Refer to the section on "pathetic".

No soup for you. :angry:

Haven't seen you post in forever, TD. How's classes this year? :)

*tips helm*

[TheDragoon]

I've been in serious Lurker Mode the last few months (except for the Diabloii.net Druid forum... though I've been less vocal there lately, as well). Ah well, that's what happens when you get to your junior year of college with a double degree in mind... :)

As for how my classes are going, they're going pretty well. I think I've finally figured out how to balance the homework of Quantum Mechanics, Electromagnetism, Physical Chemistry and Inorganic Chemistry! :D Most of the first quarter I was just rushing around trying to get everything done, leaving myself the weekends for band. But now with Marching Band a bit more relaxed I've actually had some time to do other things (often Neverwinter Nights or just hanging out with friends).

I'm kind of at a cross roads right now, too. Basically, in the next week and a half I have to figure out if I want to go for a double major in Physics and Chemistry or a double degree in Physics and Chemical Engineering. Lately, I've been getting a bit tired of nothing but theory, all day long, and the prospect of nothing but more school after I graduate. Thus, I was thinking of going for Chem. E. which would allow me to get a job straight out of school or to continue on toward getting a master's or trying to become a teacher. However, this would add an extra year on to my schooling and I'd have to start it this next quarter (registration is on the 24th). Thus, I think I'm going to go and have some talks with the Chemistry and Chemical Engineering departments and try to figure out which way to go. Either way, I've been greatly enjoying the way that things I learn in chemistry I can apply to physics and vice versa. So, in short, it's been a good year so far!

On another topic, the Low Brass/Percussion won the marching band football game (aptly named the "Tequila Bowl") this year over the High Brass/Woodwinds on a 40 yard pass on the last play of the game! The year just keeps getting better! :lol:

How's it going for you?

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

I had a suspicion that you were in a bit of a crunch-session with your studies, but you've officially boggled my mind. My years of post-secondary are FAR behind me... but I do recall actively avoiding Organic Chem and any other multisyllabic scientific pursuit during those years. You have my lasting respect.

Ah, the Crossroads, eh? Happens not that often in a lifetime, but often enough to remember how much we struggle through them. I think finding the desires and truths in one's own heart is perhaps the hardest task we have as human beings.

*catches himself starting to wax poetic* Right. *cough* How about that local sports team?

Best of luck on the "Time management". I was a poster boy for missed deadlines, late hand-ins and the "all-nighter study session". Still managed to actually graduate.

Best of luck, also, on your decision. Double majors are not to be taken lightly... and I'm in awe of those that actually accomplish them (note: not "choose them"... but "accomplish" ;) ) . Follow the one that keeps popping into your head... chances are it's the right path.

btw... "teacher"? For what it's worth... I think, from the limited exposure I've had to your writings etc... you'd make an excellent teacher.

There is no more fundamental, singularily-important job on the face of this earth. Everyone and everything traces back to it, eventually.

*tips helm*

[FoxBat]

Pardon me... but is there some sort of braindead influx of players of late?   :huh: Since when is recreation so goal driven?  I enjoy taking my hammerdin (far, FAR the lesser than those given above) into a variety of areas.  I enjoy having to deal with the caves and maggot lairs and bloody walls that stop my hammers.

And MEAT, here... can't seem to find the enjoyment at all, seeing as he isn't an indestructible deity in the open plains of the Moo Moo Farm.  Refer to the section on "pathetic".

I believe this goes back to the old "powergamer vs variant" dichotomy, although the application here may be a less extreme contrast, the relavent conclusions are the same.

I thought we took away from that discussion that fun is at least half in the eye of the beholder, and that there is no critera for establishing one side as objectively superior to the other, let alone ground for labels like "braindead" and "pathetic." Goal-oriented behavior is just as capable of providing satisfaction, abliet for different types of people or in different situations.

The evalution of a character as "impossible" will vary depending upon which of the two perspectives you take, and it is definitely worth bringing up that point on a board dominated by the opposite point of view. However, inferiority as a human being does not follow.

Maybe the LL has changed, or I've been away too long. I know there's a bias against that type of play (which is fine), but I'm not quite used to that level of elitism. Then again, there was that whole "powergaming is cheating" thread not too long ago, so it's probably my memory. Just haven't seen enough D2 discussion here for a while. I don't recall if there is an official directive "not to attack other posters," but if there is, it's clearly only paid lip service.

[Wapptor]

Everyone plays for a different reason, I hope that everyone may be able to accept that. While some may live for variants, and the difficulty they present, some people just cannot handle more than cookie cutters. We all know where we stand. I commend MEAT for at least attempting a hammerdin and investing all the gear that he did into its creation. However, what I find most distressing is that he still didn't learn the lesson that he should have. After playing the hammerdin for a while, he realized its deficiencies and instead of attempting to make up for the new characters faults, he decided that "the Hammerdin is Officially Dead!" .

Diablo 2 is a complicated game, I do not know a single person who's first character frolicked within the last acts of hell difficulty. Most were failures and were completely ridiculous by the end, many were probably deleted. This is a game that requires skill and brainpower, it also takes a heck of a lot of experience and understanding to realize what may or may not work. In my experience, even a well planned character with preset gear and skills, designed to be adaptable and versatile, does not usually work as it should in the early parts of its life. It is through experience, trial and error that a character realizes its full potential. There is no shame in a rebuild, and we all make mistakes at times. The player who drops his character before even playing around with it was a fool from the start.

MEAT's major problems as said, lie in his misconceptions that pubbie/cookie cutter gear dominates all. In many cases it is true. However a hammerdin is not a PvP build, and Arkaines Valor is nice in theory, but maybe not the best way to go. MEAT focused exclusively on power, skill power and some defence. What he lacked obviously was the life, fast cast and resists that would have made him more effective. In my opinion it is a shame that someone with such obviously vast resources chose to drop what could have eventually become a powerful and rewarding character.

-Wapptor

[Taem]

I agree with you Wapptor. I was attempting to see if I could get the damage to what I felt was a reasonable level, but I was comparing it to my sorceresses whom did incredable damage with CB, Nova, and Meteor. BH does not come near that amount of damage, but I'll tell you, I ran into this guy recently who has 6 level 99's, all paladins, and he plays for the love of the game! His latest creation is a hammerdin and instead of uber gear, he opted for a shaft, hearld of zak shield, a good damage weapons which I cant remember what it was, and basically regular normal-exceptional gear and ya know what? He was doing a great job at it and the best part was, he was having fun... Sure his hammers could't wipe the screen clear of cows like nova or meteor can, but he enjoyed every minute of it, and the funny thing was I enjoyed watching him. I kinda got a strange feeling like when you grow up to fast and start working and realize your child hood is over... well I got the feeling like I missed out on something special and blew it by trying to become "uber" instead of just having fun. Oh well; lifes full of those funny lessions ;)

[kandrathe]

:blink:

When words do not suffice.

[Archon_Wing]

Just wondering, I'd like to make a hammerdin too! but how would I deal with places like the Maggot lair? And those freak immunes- let's say magical and physical :P

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

Just wondering, I'd like to make a hammerdin too! but how would I deal with places like the Maggot lair? And those freak immunes- let's say magical and physical

By not making a one trick pony.

The game doesn't limit itself so drastically; why should you? A paladin was given many tools to deal with different situations. Make them available for such times when you get an impossible combination. A Hammerdin can still make use of such skills as Smite, or in the 1 in a million case of a physical/magic immune; Vengeance.

Those that wish to stay "pure" to hammers would adapt their game in other ways. Namely, run away.

[Archon_Wing]

Ok, so I was thinking about this: I may only be able to obtain only 25/25 because i am not rich, and so I won't get anywhere with a one trick pony. After all, I do specialize in necros:) Of course, the vengeance/conviction combo practicaly kills anything :P Oh, so that's what a one -trick pony means. Oops.

Using the ideas here, I thought of a few things:
Weapons:
I want to use Wizardspike. The 50% fast cast, 75 resist all, and mana boost is great. Not to mention +1 to all skills. It may not be a lot of +skills, but the 50% fast cast seems good accoring to what I read. Plus it's only sitting on a mule, so I should put it to use.

The backup weapon would be a skystrike. The elemental damage would come of use against immunes.
armor:
I would also want to use the Skin of Vipermagi, it offers resistances and +1 skills. Plus it's not heavy. Fast cast too. enough to get 10 frames. I don't think I can get 125% so that seems to be a good start.
Shield
A rare +2 Kurast shield with enhanced damage, and lightning resists socketed a p. diamond. granted, this shield is far from the best and requires a whopping 124 str... I don't got a HOZ, and while the blocking sucks too (54), I don't really care about the blocking too much, since I'll attack at range, and block lock will screw up my Smite. Speaking of Smite, the smite dmg here looks appealing.

Anyhow, I need advice for the shield...

Helm: +2 combat skills, lightning resist 40%, +3 max dmg Bleh, wish I had another Crest.
Belt: Glooms Trap. For the mana boost
Gloves: Frostburn, for the mana boost
Boots and rings: whatever... I mean I'm clueless.
Amulet: Rare pally one

As you can see, I'm not very rich at all, but I'm determined to go!

But crappy equipment aside, I plan then:
To Max smite
To Max blessed hammers and Concentration
To max holy shield? Is this neccesary?
1 pt. in Mediation, because I think I'll need it
maybe a point in salvation? Brenim comes to mind
Because I'm using wizardspike, there's not much point to zeal or vengeance...

Merc: Act 1 Fire merc, for more help vs. immunes.

I have no clue how to put my stat points. I wanted to initialy get 60 dex for wizardspike, socketed with a -15 req jewel, but then my blocking would go down the drain. Is pumping energy wise?

If my calculations are right, 25/25 would do around 500 damage? It's not too cruddy considering half of its magical and thus not affected by the global 50% resist. I guess finding combat charms is a need.

All questions aside, I'll go test it out :P

I don't wish for an uber character, I just want one that can fight somewhat effectively in hell mode.

[Odd]

this has probably already been said, but you guys are longwinded and my eyes are getting tired :P well, repetance cant hurt:

i made a hammerdin a while back, used similar gear to yours, xcept with wiz spike, guardian , and a few other minor changes to make him better for pvp. i used conc, bh, foh, and convict. lets just say unless a melee character was substantially faster than me, i was the god of close ranged combat :)

then the pallies with the offensive aura charms came out and raped me with FoH ;_;

[Artega]

And they said that about the Missionary, too. Missionaries can hold their own in cows, Chaos Sanctuary, wherever, so long as the person playing him is intelligent enough to know when to use what. My Missionary regularly killed the ubiquitous cow swarm faster than the standard Banana-Herald-Angel Zealot. They said I cheated a lot, if I recall correctly. Just goes to show.

[Archon_Wing]

Pardon me, but what's a Missionary? never heard of it. Does it have to do with conversion?

[Occhidiangela]

Conversion, and IIRC, Thorns.

I wont play with one in HC due to the Thorns bug on converted critters.