Palpatine in '08

[Palpy]

Here's a video for the Star Wars fans, not sure how old it is so sorry if it's been posted previously.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/a863be2b6...s-from-fod-team

Just a little election day humor for the lounge.

[gojukaine]

That was... funny. Sort of. It was also a little strange.

[Occhidiangela]

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/a863be2b6...s-from-fod-team

Just a little election day humor for the lounge.

Satire. A modest offering, with thankfully a little less vitriol than the RL version.

I voted on the way home from work today, then went to the pub and got a few pints. It was the only way I could prevent throwing up.

Save us, oh Ogden, from the calumny of the Polmen.

Occhi

[--Pete]

Hi,

It was the only way I could prevent throwing up.

Vote. Wipe. Flush. "And the world's a better place because of you.":whistling:

--Pete

PS Bonus points to anyone recognizing the quote without resorting to google-fu.:)

[Hammerskjold]

I guess this can go in this thread.



Congratulations to Obama and Biden.


There's still some things I want to find out, ie: did the elusive 'young voters' actually did turn out this year, same with the 'undecided voters'. But that's baseball stats minutiae right now.

Let me just say this. As a Canadian who recently participated in my own country's recent election with one of the lower voter turnouts. I offer the United States and her citizens regardless of who they voted for, a hearty salute for their participation and engagement.

And I say this as a sincere compliment. For 2 years, the US election has offered me an amazing assortment of political theatre. When it comes to politics as entertainment, at this time and place it is my view that the US National stage is the biggest political stage of them all. It was a multi-media smorgasbord ranging from text coverage, online discussions, cable news, big 3 network, Youtube, Stewart & Colbert, Stone & Parker, Tina Fey, and (Insert Name) the (Insert Occupation)!


So thank you again for one hell of a show. I heard the epilogue might be even more interesting.

[VinnieJones]

Canadian here as well, and I'd just like to say I'd much rather have participated in your election than mine - especially given your's has just as much if not more bearing than our will. Once again we are hamstrung with weak leadership and a minority government, so honestly I'm hoping for a vote of no confidence in about a year and another election with some new candidates.

Anyway, best of luck to my southern neighbours. I hope your new government works out well.

[Quark]

Now, I know it's still too close to call officially because of absentee ballots, but I really have to hand it to those Alaskans up there.

They reelected a convicted felon. That is a whole new order of f'd up.

[Mordekhuul]

Now, I know it's still too close to call officially because of absentee ballots, but I really have to hand it to those Alaskans up there.

They reelected a convicted felon. That is a whole new order of f'd up.

That's a pretty strongly red state up there, Alaska.

A lot of folks feel they owe Stevens, as well. Before his conviction he was wildly popular. The guy has been the senator for many decades and was personally instrumental in getting Alaska admitted to the United States, I understand.

Not saying I wouldn't have voted him down (I'm not strongly enough red or blue to vote for a party despite the person), just mentioning some factors.

[Jester]

Now, I know it's still too close to call officially because of absentee ballots, but I really have to hand it to those Alaskans up there.

They reelected a convicted felon. That is a whole new order of f'd up.

Oh, I don't know about that. There was that one time that a dead guy beat John Ashcroft... that was pretty bizarre.

-Jester

[Ashock]

I voted on the way home from work today, then went to the pub and got a few pints. It was the only way I could prevent throwing up.

Occhi

You mean you actually managed not to throw up? Damn, you're a bigger man than me. Oh and btw, the Electorate college is annoying me more and more every time I vote in the Presidential elections.

[kandrathe]

Now, I know it's still too close to call officially because of absentee ballots, but I really have to hand it to those Alaskans up there.

They reelected a convicted felon. That is a whole new order of f'd up.

It seems that the past few decades have redefined the standard of what American's tolerate in their elected officials. Which is why Mel Reynolds boldly tried to win back his seat after he was released from prison in 2004. He didn't, but only thanks to their being an astute and capable challenger (Jesse Jackson, Jr.). When people don't care about sex romps in the Oval office, pimping out the Lincoln bedroom, or fondling page boys in the Congressional cloakroom then why should they care about an 84 year old codger who lied about some gifts he received from Veco corporation and his other palm greasing pals.

American's have no clue what liberty or freedom mean anymore, why should they care that their government has descended into kakistocracy.

[Mirajj]

kakistocracy.

This is the first time in a long time I've had to look the meaning of a word up. Thanks!;)

[--Pete]

Hi,

It seems that the past few decades have redefined the standard of what American's tolerate in their elected officials.

By "few decades", you do mean 219 years, don't you? Corruption in politics in this country is a tradition going back to the founding of this country.

Actually, think it through. If Ted Stevens had withdrawn from the election, it would have defaulted to the Democrat contender who would have held the office for six years. By continuing to run, if he wins and then gets kicked out of the Senate (which is pretty well a forgone conclusion) then (by law) there will be another election, an election that the Republicans have a decent chance to win. From that viewpoint, by staying in the race he is doing the only thing that makes sense from the partisan viewpoint.

--Pete

[Zenda]

In reply to post #7 by Quark

"They reelected a convicted felon."

So, by US law convicted felons are not allowed to vote, but they can be a candidate in political elections? That's just as strange as not allowing 19-year-olds to handle liquor, when they are given a gun and sent away to fight a war :blink:

In reply to post #13 by Pete

"Corruption in politics in this country is a tradition going back to the founding of this country."

I think you are way too anti-American there :whistling:

According to this list, the USA ranks 17, which is at the same level as most west-European nations. Netherlands is at 12, which is worse as before. Our 'NATO friend' Georgia is at 134, way above India at 89, which was traditionally regarded as example for corrupt government officials.

Why the link to this Tammany Society? I had never heard of them, but the Wiki article doesn't seem to regard them as a highly corrupted organisation. It does look as if they didn't deserve much respect, but that was propably true for many organisations in that time.

[[wcip]Angel]

Here's a video for the Star Wars fans, not sure how old it is so sorry if it's been posted previously.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/a863be2b6...s-from-fod-team

Just a little election day humor for the lounge.

Congratulations to all Americans! Whether or not you voted for 'that one', surely you must all agree that he's a better candidate than the one occupying the seat today.

As for the reaction over here. Media and people alike are struck with Obama-laria. We're all completely smitten by his apparent eloquence and wisdom. Most of us realise that there isn't that big a difference between Obama and McCain (when it comes to matters affecting the rest of the world); but we're still optimistic. One of my favourite colleagues comes from Chicago, a 62-year old English teacher, and she was over the moon after the results rolled in, perhaps her even more so than the rest of us.

Regardless, here's hoping your new leadership will be able to assuage the criticism leveled at the US government for the past 8 years and help Americans (and the rest of the world) out of this, now, a world crisis.

Oh, and similar to the 200.000 strong who actually witnessed it in person, I liked his victory speech.:)

[--Pete]

Hi,

So, by US law convicted felons are not allowed to vote, but they can be a candidate in political elections?

Who can vote is determined by the states. Who can be in congress is determined by the federal government.

I think you need to understand something which I call the Fundamental American Fable (FAF for short). In theory, the United States of America are fifty independent sovereign countries united in a federation. When you think USA, think EU. When you think Germany, France, Italy, etc., then think California, New York, etc. That was the concept under which the USA was formed under the Articles of Confederation.

It soon became apparent that the Federation was too weak, so the Constitution was adopted, strengthening the federal government. However the FAF was still strong, and when the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution, the tenth amendment allocated everything not specifically covered in the Constitution to the individual states. Some seventy years later, by the outbreak of the American Civil War, through interpretations of the Constitution in favor of a stronger central government, the FAF became more and more of a fairy tale. The final straw was the Civil War.

A number of issues divided the industrial North from the agrarian South. By 1861, the dominance of the North in the federal government, and the continuing increase of power of the federal government, drove a number of southern states to attempt to secede from the USA. If the FAF were not by then completely mythical, those states would have been permitted to do so (imagine a country being prohibited from resigning from the EU or UN). However, the reality was that by then, the States had become states and the union looked at the situation not as that of sovereign countries exercising their right but as provinces rebelling. By 1865 the results were in. Might made right and the states were meaningless.

However, reality takes a long time to replace mythology. So 143 years after the last nail was driven into the coffin of the FAF, we still have the trappings of the original concept. A Senate that no longer represents the state but has become an unfairly appropriated second house of representatives. The vermiform appendix of an Electoral College. And a hodgepodge of minor legal differences throughout the land.

Considering that the vast majority of citizens in the USA do not understand all this, I am not surprised that an European does not. However, if you want to intelligently discuss American politics and actions, it would be helpful if you at least had some knowledge of the American character.

That's just as strange as not allowing 19-year-olds to handle liquor, when they are given a gun and sent away to fight a war :blink:

During the Vietnam era many made this argument. As a result, the voting age was reduced to 18 by the 26th Amendment. Many states followed suit, reducing the drinking age, the age of majority, etc, to 18. Most of those states have since increased the drinking age again.

Personally, I think drinking ages are stupid and counterproductive. Precisely by establishing a drinking age, the state makes drinking a symbol of maturity. This contributes greatly to the allure of getting drunk to prove something. But that's another issue entirely.

I think you are way too anti-American there :whistling:

According to this list, the USA ranks 17, which is at the same level as most west-European nations. Netherlands is at 12, which is worse as before. Our 'NATO friend' Georgia is at 134, way above India at 89, which was traditionally regarded as example for corrupt government officials.

"Corrupt government" is almost one word. I was not comparing the USA to the rest of the world. I was only pointing out that the present is not that different from the past.

Why the link to this Tammany Society? I had never heard of them, but the Wiki article doesn't seem to regard them as a highly corrupted organisation. It does look as if they didn't deserve much respect, but that was propably true for many organisations in that time.

"In that time" being the end of the eighteenth, all of the nineteenth, and the first part of the twentieth centuries? And Tammany just because it is probably the best known and longest lasting of the political power bases in the USA. The Wiki article is pretty easy on them, but my additional knowledge is based on books read forty or more years ago, so I cannot reference it.

--Pete

[ShadowHM]

I think you need to understand something which I call the Fundamental American Fable (FAF for short).

Thank you, Pete, for the concise and clear write-up. I will be sharing that summary with a number of people up here who have expressed confusion over 'the way things work' south of the border. B)

[Occhidiangela]

That's a pretty strongly red state up there, Alaska.

A lot of folks feel they owe Stevens, as well. Before his conviction he was wildly popular. The guy has been the senator for many decades and was personally instrumental in getting Alaska admitted to the United States, I understand.

Not saying I wouldn't have voted him down (I'm not strongly enough red or blue to vote for a party despite the person), just mentioning some factors.

Hi

Please Google Marion Barry, Mayor of Washington DC

Stevens, or old Uncle Ted, is a case of

He may be an arsehole, but he's our arsehole.

Politics at its finest, and most local, exercise.

Occhi

[Occhidiangela]

Thank you, Pete, for the concise and clear write-up. I will be sharing that summary with a number of people up here who have expressed confusion over 'the way things work' south of the border. B)

Well

The Mexican food sucks north of here, anyway.

Ten points for the reference without use of google.

To Pete: About the FAF

The Ninth and Tenth are still in force, last I checked, unless the Constitution has been amended since then.

I suggest a good, hard look at the divide I have been commenting on for about eight years, which is almost perfectly embodied by the map NBC news developed to portray the results of the recent election.

The break isn't north/south, but it has been growing slowly in this direction for about forty years.

Now that IED's have become as common as houseplants, I expect that we will see a sustained series of McVeigh like events. Most of the countermeasures against them are far too annoying to the American public to be implemented. (We do need to talk, in the flesh.) Pessimist, I know, but I welcome being wrong in this case. I really hope I am wrong. Really.

Occhi

[Jester]

Why the link to this Tammany Society? I had never heard of them, but the Wiki article doesn't seem to regard them as a highly corrupted organisation. It does look as if they didn't deserve much respect, but that was propably true for many organisations in that time.

Maybe because they employed sneaky characters?

-Jester