Micro$haft's inevitable fall from grace!
#1
It seems that the new "features" of the MS Office suite, MS Windows 8, and Xbox One are turning users away in droves, and I am one of them. I should have guessed when Google released its compatible office suite, MS would have to make drastic changes, and with the PS4 just around the corner and Nintendo's oddball ideas, well the Xbox One had to find a way to remain competitive and suck the money from it's gamer's other than just buying up all the good game developers because when all MS's competitors are offering free multi-player, it makes that gold membership look pretty crappy, although I have no idea wtf MS was thinking when it released Windoze 8...

So, let's start with Ribbons... Oh how I loathe ribbons for office, but I'm not the only one. It seems more IT users, you know, the guys who get paid to use this shit for a living, hate it as well. You want to know why? Because it's slow and inefficient to have to not only memorize which ribbon your control is on, but you just wasted an extra 2-3 clicks getting to the control you wanted (the one that used to be right on top, in sight) which might not sound like a lot to the average user, but to a professional, you just added several minutes to a single project, perhaps even up to an hour of wasted, frustrating time in a single day. It's alright, I already made my decision to use the Google office suite instead of breaking down and getting the new office with some Ubit hack just to use the program... no, I prefer my programs to work out of the box thank you very much.

So on to the Xbox One... which starts with it's atrocious PR effort, followed up by its.. well just read this article. Here, I'll list them off one-by-one: 1. Privacy, 2. Region-locking, 3. Used Games*, 4. Mostly always-online, 5. Show me the video games! Anyways, there's a great article in last months Game Informer magazine that details how MS is trying to screw over it's users to gain a little capital, however this article on Cracked really hits the nail on the head! In case you didn't get it, I won't be purchasing the Xbox One... ever! And other users aren't duped into supporting this monstrosity either!

Which brings me to the most failed "upgrade" of them all IMO, Windoze 8. First off, let me say Window 7 is without a doubt the most perfect version of Windows MS have ever conceived and it would have been so much better off just sticking with that format. Having said, that, never in my life have I seen such a backwards jump, no leap, than what MS did with W8. I know, as does everyone else, what they were trying to do, to make a unified system that words both on phones, the X1, and the PC simultaneously - ultimately because they want more MONEY and want to remain relevant - but using Metro (ribbons for windows) on a PC was by far the stupidest idea MS have ever conceived of yet! So why all the hate? First off, Metro... again, like Ribbons, slows everything down. In some cases, you have to scroll through countless screens to find the program you want, so add in even more click than the two or three extra ones with ribbons. Second, if you want to make any changes at all to your desktop or file settings, or see hidden files, be prepared to spend a lot of wasted time exiting the desktop and frivolously clicking through a montage of needless apps to get to the program you need. Need I even mention the removal of the Start Menu?* I've decided I'd be better off figuring out how to make a Linux machine than ever having to use W8, which is what I actually plan on doing if I ever purchase a new computer.

What I despise the absolute most however, is how the entire business world seems to follow MS with such fervor, upgrading their systems as soon as possible to the next generation MS product to remain "on top" and "relevant". I admit, even in the administration department of my work, they upgraded to Ribbons so we could use the now .docx format, and W8 because... why the fuck not I guess... And I feel this is what most businesses do, instead of doing what is right for their workers. Thank god most sales of these products comes from consumers, which makes MS rethink it's development strategies, however a little start menu here and extra DRM for used games there does not spell change. The reality is, MS has a vision for a unified Metro/ribbons based universe where everything is connected and will not alter course save for bankruptcy. Here is a great article on the subject; MS will not change with Windows 9 so... The way I see it, this as the defining moment, the end of MS as we know it. The more they push their agenda, the more the average user will be forced to find other avenues to support their computer well-being, and businesses will come to the realization that, "oh shit... there are more operating systems that JUST WINDOWS..." and once that starts happening, coupled with my predicted low sales of the X1, watch as MS flounders and someone else comes in to steal the spotlight for another decade or so. MS, it was nice knowing you, but in the end, you turned out to be just another selfish, money-grabbing bitch like the rest of them. I'll take my money and spend it elsewhere, thank-you very much! Oh and, quick edit here: I'm not some antiquated user who can't get with the times... there are literally hundreds of thousands of users who feel as I do, from average users, to professionals, to column writers, to editors. The list goes on and on. The MS we know will come to a close if it keeps pushing users away at it's current rate.

* So it seems after much scrutiny, MS has decided to backtrack on these issues, however I'd like to point out that they should never have put their customers in this position in the first place, and it's a sad state of affairs when a giant corporation like this strays so far from consumer desires.
"The true value of a human being is determined primarily by the measure and the sense in which he has attained liberation from the self." -Albert Einsetin
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#2
But tell us how you really feel about it. Tongue

Just kidding, I'm about 99% with you. The .5% is because I'm tied to Adobe products at the moment, and the other .5% is because the alternative is Mac. And they're currently IMO, even worse when it comes to the walled garden scenario. (Though I still say MS if it has it's way, would be frightening.)

That aside. I wonder if the only reason MS still has some corporate clients left is because of Excel. I know people and some businesses who bought MS Office Suite mainly because of that. On the OS front, some businesses I know of are still with Win-XP. And talking to a friend just informally, he said most companies he knows will pass on W8. They are either going to W7 (or just bought W7) or sticking with XP and doing a wait&see.

Like you said, most of them already have to deal with Office, not to mention possibly other programs. The last thing a company\IT dept needs is training staff on a badly designed OS.

If MS under Capt. Balmer* continues this ahem,'improvement' and direction. Where customers are being told what they need, instead of being listened to. And only listened to after the fact people (thankfully) voted with their wallet.

Let's just say I won't shed much tear if they go the way of Kodak and Atari.
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#3
Quote:So, let's start with Ribbons... Oh how I loathe ribbons for office, but I'm not the only one. It seems more IT users, you know, the guys who get paid to use this shit for a living, hate it as well. You want to know why? Because it's slow and inefficient to have to not only memorize which ribbon your control is on, but you just wasted an extra 2-3 clicks getting to the control you wanted (the one that used to be right on top, in sight) which might not sound like a lot to the average user, but to a professional, you just added several minutes to a single project, perhaps even up to an hour of wasted, frustrating time in a single day.

Let me start by saying that I hate the ribbons as well. However, anyone who considers them self to be a professional user of such software and is concerned with efficiency should be using keyboard shortcuts anyway. I don't use Office products anywhere enough to remember the shortcuts, which is why I'm stuck using the mouse, which is why I hate the ribbons.
"What contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch?"

-W.C. Fields
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#4
And this is what happens when I don't get enough sleep. I've been working graveyard for a manager who went on vacation and it's killing me! Maybe 5-hours of sleep on a good night, 3-hours on a bad one the past 7-days. I feel highly irritable and, well, irrational. And even though I made some good points in my post, the new me should have been able to objectively state them without so much aggressive vigor. This is part of the learning curve - I need to be aware what sets me back, i.e. lack of sleep and hunger. Anyways, I know that's a bit OT and totally unrelated to my original post, but I thought I'd share nonetheless. I guess getting 8-hours last night has me thinking clearly today.
"The true value of a human being is determined primarily by the measure and the sense in which he has attained liberation from the self." -Albert Einsetin
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#5
Steve Ballmer is out.

Too bad he's leaving in a year, and not immediately.

And in the high tech world, a year is still plenty of time to do some self immolation.


I can only wish that MSoft would realize that content creation\productivity software\hardware are -not- all taken over by tablets,
smartphones.

Please MSoft and future CEO of MSoft, please stop believing this meme of 'demise of the desktop', that's just crap written by clueless hipsters who thinks the CGI effects of 'Avatar'
can now be done with an IPad.

Stop trying so hard to be an expensive two seater sports car with no trunk space with a fruit like emblem, MSoft (you too Adobe) , and remember that there are still real needs for a heavy duty work truck with no bloatware and feature creep.

/wishful thinking out loud
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#6
Most of what i ever needed in an OS was in 98SE.

So, I now use W 7 at work. After a few weeks of "this looks weird" I am reasonably comfortable with it.

Who needs W 8?
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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#7
Anyone who needs speed uses W8.
Hardcore Diablo 1/2/3/4 & Retail/Classic WoW adventurer.
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#8
I "upgraded" from W8 back to W7. I absolutely hated what W8 did to my system.
nobody ever slaughtered an entire school with a smart phone and a twitter account – they have, however, toppled governments. - Jim Wright
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#9
Yes, this is how I feel about W8. Faceplant...
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.

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#10
Windows 8 with a start menu replacement is way better than every other version of Windows. I don't know where all the hate is coming from. Dat boot speed.

I do miss MS-DOS 6.22 though.
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#11
I have 6.22 on my boot menu.
"I may be old, but I'm not dead."
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#12
(08-27-2013, 03:31 AM)DeeBye Wrote: Windows 8 with a start menu replacement is way better than every other version of Windows. I don't know where all the hate is coming from. Dat boot speed.

It's not the speed, but the steering. At least to me. Granted I haven't tried out the new service pack that may or may not address the problems.


I'm still using w7 (and Vista) because my main work is on desktop mode, and using a touch tablet mode style interface, on a non touchscreen desktop, is just plain ridonkulous to me.

So unless the new service pack delivers it's tentative promise of easy booting mode choices, W8 last time I tried it, was an 'in your face' interface. And not in a good way. At all.

Now I have nothing against tablets, actually I can't wait until tablets become powerful enough to basically rival laptops, or merge into a good hybrid.

But if you want to know where some of the hate-ons come from, at least from my own experience with it, it's the interface and execution of W8 that leaves users like me going...'wtf is this thing supposed to be?'

TL,DR: W8 is actually pretty good on a Surface Pro type hardware. On a non touchscreen desktop, IMO not so much.
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#13
I honestly can say I have no idea what the issue with the tablet interface is, or that people were that reliant on their start menus. I never use that screen for anything. If I do need to hop into the 'start' menu I just type a few letters of what I'm looking for and away I go. Is typing that big of a dealbreaker?
Hardcore Diablo 1/2/3/4 & Retail/Classic WoW adventurer.
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#14
For me, it wasn't the homescreen (which I liked), or the lack of a start menu which I didn't miss, since I use tablets, and an iphone, and other idevices.

For me, it was the batshit insane slogfest that my graphics became when trying to use PS / AI / DW / FL on 8. I was fine to surf, I was fine to do other stuff. I was fine to PLAY GAMES.

But Adobe Suite? What I actually need to make money? It choked, sputtered, coughed, and died. No amount of patching on either side of the (Adobe or Win) ever got them to work even remotely well together. So. My options were:


1.) Upgrade to CS5 or higher (1500+)
2.) Keep what I have, and go back to Win7.
nobody ever slaughtered an entire school with a smart phone and a twitter account – they have, however, toppled governments. - Jim Wright
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#15
(08-27-2013, 11:55 AM)Frag Wrote: I honestly can say I have no idea what the issue with the tablet interface is, or that people were that reliant on their start menus.

It's not the tablet interface, it's the -touch- tablet mode in a -non- touchscreen desktop that's causing beef with some people.

This isn't just a cosmetic issue, it can and does cause problems with some users.

And yes, some people do rely on the start menu. I'm fairly fluent in PC\Wintel boxes, but someone like my dad who's older, he does use the Start menu.

Again, it's the execution of W8. Superficially and at a glance, W8 looks like it would suit someone like my dad who doesn't care about computers, he only cares about what it can do for him. Ie: typing, browsing, no video games. Visually it looks to be more friendly for his aging eyes.

After trying it out myself (pre-service pack version, I reserve my judgement when the new SPack comes out), my personal conclusion is W 8 would be a nightmare for someone like him to use at this time.

I already wrote what my own reasons are for sticking with W7 for now.

Quote: I never use that screen for anything. If I do need to hop into the 'start' menu I just type a few letters of what I'm looking for and away I go. Is typing that big of a dealbreaker?

It's a little more than that. In an enterprise\business setting, yeah it can be. Not simply 'typing' something, but potentially re-training your sales staff on W8 'new and improved' functions can cost a company. Either in time, IT staff, monies.

Speaking for myself, I'm currently an independent contractor. Fancypants way of saying, I'm the IT dept. Tongue

And when I use my programs on my workstation, I really don't need the OS (figuratively speaking) to be an intrusive waiter who hovers for too long and starts singing happy birthday at random and unwanted intervals.

The last thing I need is for 'Pierre' to hover, or keep interrupting my conversation with my dining companion(s), or start getting persnickety if I want more than one entree at a time.

I'm not a comp tech guru, but I can believe that under the hood W8 is actually powerful and speedy. But again, it's the execution and the control interface that I personally think needs serious work. 0-60 in a millisecond is useless to me if the dashboard layout and steering sucks.

TL, DR:

What shoju said.

Quote:For me, it was the batshit insane slogfest that my graphics became when trying to use PS / AI / DW / FL on 8. I was fine to surf, I was fine to do other stuff. I was fine to PLAY GAMES.

But Adobe Suite? What I actually need to make money? It choked, sputtered, coughed, and died.
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#16
(08-27-2013, 02:40 PM)shoju Wrote: For me, it wasn't the homescreen (which I liked), or the lack of a start menu which I didn't miss, since I use tablets, and an iphone, and other idevices.
If my screen were touch sensitive I'd probably like it. But, when your primary inputs are still keyboard and mouse, the extra interface layer is in the way.
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.

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#17
(08-27-2013, 02:58 PM)Hammerskjold Wrote: It's a little more than that. In an enterprise\business setting, yeah it can be. Not simply 'typing' something, but potentially re-training your sales staff on W8 'new and improved' functions can cost a company. Either in time, IT staff, monies.

Speaking for myself, I'm currently an independent contractor. Fancypants way of saying, I'm the IT dept. Tongue

And when I use my programs on my workstation, I really don't need the OS (figuratively speaking) to be an intrusive waiter who hovers for too long and starts singing happy birthday at random and unwanted intervals.

The last thing I need is for 'Pierre' to hover, or keep interrupting my conversation with my dining companion(s), or start getting persnickety if I want more than one entree at a time.

I'm not a comp tech guru, but I can believe that under the hood W8 is actually powerful and speedy. But again, it's the execution and the control interface that I personally think needs serious work. 0-60 in a millisecond is useless to me if the dashboard layout and steering sucks.
I've been the IT department, for a fortune 500 and fortune 10 company, and yes, upgrading people is a nightmare, that's independent of the OS though. My personal experience is it took 4 years of Win7 before they were comfortable moving from XP, so they're not really the target demographic as they're locked into 32bit OS's with archaic driver support until they decide to redo "the backend" (read: $$$$$). As for the actual retraining, from having done so, Win8 isn't that different than Win7 if your staff is trained to use desktop icons or tiles instead of the start menu. If they're not, and this could have just been the spin I admit, people took it as a plus as they didn't have to open a menu since they could launch whatever from the desktop.

I'm drawing a blank on the waiter reference, because the OS in this case is not in my way, it's barely visible, and it's more than .6ms faster for daily tasks, let alone intensive ones.

As for the driver problems, that would have been a dealbreaker for me also. That's part of the reason I never installed Win7 at home. It's not like Win8 had to be the OS for everyone and a legitimate argument could be made that I'm on the wrong side of tick-tock, as I used Vista SP2 for years and enjoyed it, disdained Win7 for driver problems and unneeded for what I did. Big Grin
Hardcore Diablo 1/2/3/4 & Retail/Classic WoW adventurer.
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#18
(08-27-2013, 07:37 PM)kandrathe Wrote: If my screen were touch sensitive I'd probably like it. But, when your primary inputs are still keyboard and mouse, the extra interface layer is in the way.

Install this. It has the option to hide the stupid touchscreen interface and behave like all of the previous Windows versions.
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#19
(08-28-2013, 03:17 AM)DeeBye Wrote:
(08-27-2013, 07:37 PM)kandrathe Wrote: If my screen were touch sensitive I'd probably like it. But, when your primary inputs are still keyboard and mouse, the extra interface layer is in the way.

Install this. It has the option to hide the stupid touchscreen interface and behave like all of the previous Windows versions.

Does it also remove Metro? If not, Iobit does the same thing and removes that extremely annoying Metro. We have it on our W8 computers in the office. Or are you referring to Metro as that "stupid touchscreen interface"?
"The true value of a human being is determined primarily by the measure and the sense in which he has attained liberation from the self." -Albert Einsetin
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#20
(08-28-2013, 04:33 AM)Taem Wrote: Does it also remove Metro?

Yes.
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